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Sledge
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 102 |
SID 6582A
Does anyone know how this chip sounds compared to the other models? It's a 9V version (like the 8580), and it was produced in 1992 mainly.
I have ordered a couple of them, since a guy on E-bay have 100 of them as new old stock. They cost a bit, but hey.. I want one anyways :-)
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
At least I don't... but since you'll receive some, please let me know :-) |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
I don't have a ebay account, but if you do, please tell this dude that he cannot state on his page on ebay that it works as a replacement for 6581 and 8580, since it will blow on 6581 machines (in case it is like the 8580 as Sledge says).
Would be sad if people bought them only to destroy them. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Well... you CAN use it as replacement, if you add a voltage regulator :-P
Or at least this has been accomplished by people. |
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Sledge
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 102 |
Quote: I don't have a ebay account, but if you do, please tell this dude that he cannot state on his page on ebay that it works as a replacement for 6581 and 8580, since it will blow on 6581 machines (in case it is like the 8580 as Sledge says).
Would be sad if people bought them only to destroy them.
He says on his page that they are 9V and cannot replace the older 6581 (12V).
There is a SID Wiki that mention the 6582, but no info on the sound or anything though. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Yodelking has one (you around, buddy?). He told me it sounds like an 8580 (filters and combined waveforms) and can play normal $D418 digis like a 6581. Jack-in-all-trade thing, I'd say. |
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
Hello all,
does anybody have a sound example of this rare piece? |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
They're probably internally regulated like the 8565 to 9V so you can use them in either machine.
..guess I will find out soon.. ;-)
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elkmoose
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 45 |
Quote: Does anyone know how this chip sounds compared to the other models? It's a 9V version (like the 8580), and it was produced in 1992 mainly.
I have ordered a couple of them, since a guy on E-bay have 100 of them as new old stock. They cost a bit, but hey.. I want one anyways :-)
well, the guy reenters his stuff always, and its getting cheaper every time he puts them there, you should have waited at least until it hits 10 pound |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Quote: Yodelking has one (you around, buddy?). He told me it sounds like an 8580 (filters and combined waveforms) and can play normal $D418 digis like a 6581. Jack-in-all-trade thing, I'd say.
Yeah, I'm here... :) That describtion sums it up quite well. I have a faint memory of recording my different SIDs on my HardSID, but I guess it might just have been something I was _going_ to do, but never got around doing. :( Anyway, I've removed the Hardsid from the computer due to the fan started to make too much noise. So I can't record anything now, but I'll see if I can find clips on the computer, or if I never did record them. |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
BTW: http://sid.kubarth.com/ under the link "files" you can find a PDF about 6582. :) |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
if I remeber right 6582 is replacement for 6581 but it's more like 8580 soundwise anyway.
you won't fuck up 8580 by giving it 12v insted of 9v (I haven't even toasted 8580 with 21-22v and it was running few minutes under that conditions)
www.vulture.c64.org |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
Well.. 6582A is definately a 8580 replacement or vice versa ;)
I just did a quick non-scientific comparison and the 6582A sound is very similar, although not identical, to the 8580.. this was while listening to various 8580 and 6581 SIDs.
When plugged into a 12V machine it behaves and sounds exactly like the 8580 does when pluggen into an old 12V machine.. Almost like a 6581 but with the filter going fuckidysweeeeepkracklepopfuck. ...which reminds me.. does the 8580 mounted in a 12V machine retain the 6581 "like" waveforms when supplied with 9V instead of 12V? And does the filterfuck go away or do you have to do something to the caps too? ..I never tried mounting an 8580 in an old c64 while supplying it with the correct 9V so I have no clue how it behaves.. but it's interresting how the 8580 waveforms in a 12V machine sound a LOT like 6581 waveforms...
/me seriously needs to kick his own ass and do some proper testing... ;-) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Oliver Achten said on IRC that his 6582 sounds exactly like a 8580 which basically hints to one thing: The 6582 is just a 8580 with a different printing on top. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Except that it can play $D418 digis like a 6581. That is a confirmed fact. |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
Quote: Except that it can play $D418 digis like a 6581. That is a confirmed fact.
I'm not at all convinced about that.. In my experience, the 8580's ability to play digis via $d418 seems to be related to the PCB design and not the actual chip. I only have _one_ C64 which doesn't play digis at a "proper" volume level and that is a C64G. All my other C64c machines have no problems. If you plug the 8580 in an old c64 it plays digis too.
Guess I should verify that my C64G's 8580 can play digis when plugged into another machine and that some other 8580 will NOT play digis when plugged into the C64G.
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Quote: Well.. 6582A is definately a 8580 replacement or vice versa ;)
I just did a quick non-scientific comparison and the 6582A sound is very similar, although not identical, to the 8580.. this was while listening to various 8580 and 6581 SIDs.
When plugged into a 12V machine it behaves and sounds exactly like the 8580 does when pluggen into an old 12V machine.. Almost like a 6581 but with the filter going fuckidysweeeeepkracklepopfuck. ...which reminds me.. does the 8580 mounted in a 12V machine retain the 6581 "like" waveforms when supplied with 9V instead of 12V? And does the filterfuck go away or do you have to do something to the caps too? ..I never tried mounting an 8580 in an old c64 while supplying it with the correct 9V so I have no clue how it behaves.. but it's interresting how the 8580 waveforms in a 12V machine sound a LOT like 6581 waveforms...
/me seriously needs to kick his own ass and do some proper testing... ;-)
Filters are primarily regulated with capacitance, not votage supply.
and digi abilities of some 8580 are not PCB dependant, I had few 8580 which can do $d418 digis loudly (like in my current 128Dcr resurrected thanx to Steppe)
I had a "loud" 8580 in my c64-II and after replacing it with another one when the original got toasted it lost ability of playing samples loud - I'm not talking shit - those things are FACTS.
Have in mind that CSG/MOS chips were produced at 3 different plants (plants were printed on the bottom of package) and hence this _may_ be plant-dependant for 8580 chip to be able to do digi or not.
www.vulture.c64.org |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
@raf: I never claimed you were talking shit ;-)
I just tested a bit and, yes.. the digi ability of the 8580 is definately a chip thing.
I tested 2 8580R5 in a C64c and a C64G. Chip #1 plays digis loud at 6581 volume levels while chip #2 plays digis at very low volume levels. Same results for both C64, so it's not a PCB thing ;-)
Chip #1 Top: 8580R5 - 4687 25
Chip #1 Bottom: Honk Kong - HH475209 - HC-30
Chip #2 Top: 8580R5 - 2887 25
Chip #2 Bottom: Hong Kong - HH272226 - HC-30
So, 2 chips from the same plant, same year but only 18 weeks apart behave totally different.
The 6582A plays digis at roughly the same volume level as Chip #2, so Steppe, I'm still not convinced ;-)
Another 8580R5 I had lying around played at a somewhat louder level as Chip #2, but still very low. ..i forgot to notice the details of that chip, tho.
It would be interresting to get some production dates/plants for other 8580 chips which plays digis at 6581 volume levels.
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Sledge
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 102 |
Which 6582A are you referring to? The ones I have here are from 1992, but they have been produced since 1986-87 something if you look at the SID symphony carts. So I guess a SID behaves the way it want to... :)
I will test the 6582A chips I have and report. I do not have that much time for the moment though..
-sledge |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
@devia: Oops, guess you learn something new about the Commie every day. Interresting, with two r even. ;-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5022 |
ah I see the future:
"for maximum experience play this tune with Hong Kong - HH272226 - HC-30, thank you"
;) |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
@Sledge: The one I tested is a 6582A - 2392 25, bottom says: Philippines - NM205N08 - 1200T
@Oswald: :)
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Sledge
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 102 |
Quote: @Sledge: The one I tested is a 6582A - 2392 25, bottom says: Philippines - NM205N08 - 1200T
@Oswald: :)
Then we have what appears to be the same revision from the same plant :) |
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AüMTRöN
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 42 |
SIDs come from plants!? Then sid music really IS organic!
/me disappears into the tumbleweed... |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
This question is probably a bit redundant or so, since I guess people would say that this thread already gives the answer, but I just want to make really sure.
The 6582 should be in 9v machines, right? |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Right, for machines that previously hosted an 8580. |
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Necronomfive
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 20 |
6582 sounds EXACTLY THE SAME as the 8580. I did several comparisons, and both chips have EXACTLY the same behaviour (filtercharacteristics, waveforms etc.). I know that the "65xx" marking has a certain psychological effect on people, but believe me:
6582 = 8580
6582 = 8580
6582 = 8580
It's NO "super 8580 which can play digis better". It's NO 6581 RUNNING ON 9V. It can not cure aids and cancer either. ;)
Scrap the markings off a 8580, write "6582" on it with tip-ex, and you have the same effect. This chip has become a much bigger myth than it deserves. And I know it's hard to accept this, since we all want to be excited about this "ultra rare" sid revision. But once again:
6582 = 8580
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Booohoooo...!!!! :-(
You just destroyed everything I believed in for the last 10+ years! ;-) |
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Necronomfive
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 20 |
Quote: Booohoooo...!!!! :-(
You just destroyed everything I believed in for the last 10+ years! ;-)
That was the plan. ;) Because all too often, people pop up with the most "interesting" claims about the 6582, spreading false hearsay, further contributing to the "myth" of the 6582. The 6582 is only a very rare package variant of the 8580. Everyone saying it's different from a 8580 is lying. It's no more different from a 8580 than 2 random 8580's compared to each other. |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
Quote: That was the plan. ;) Because all too often, people pop up with the most "interesting" claims about the 6582, spreading false hearsay, further contributing to the "myth" of the 6582. The 6582 is only a very rare package variant of the 8580. Everyone saying it's different from a 8580 is lying. It's no more different from a 8580 than 2 random 8580's compared to each other.
it's a bit like a rev a Vic-II chip (gold contacts, ceramic chip): cool to have, but not more useful than other revisions ;_)
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http://zomgwtfbbq.info |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Isn't the 6582 a VERY EARLY 8580?
At least you can say you have some sort of prototype-stuff-shit-early-this-or-that?
Not that I care... just helping those out whose dreams have just been shattered ;-) |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Quote: Isn't the 6582 a VERY EARLY 8580?
At least you can say you have some sort of prototype-stuff-shit-early-this-or-that?
Not that I care... just helping those out whose dreams have just been shattered ;-)
Mace: No.
Check here: http://sid.kubarth.com/sid_revisions.html
You can see 8580's from 1989 here, and 6582's from 1992.
Maybe it's the other way around?
Here are some specifications of chips.
Did anyone compare the 8580 and 6582 specifications?
http://sid.kubarth.com/files.html |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11127 |
dont 6582 actually say 8580 on their dies? |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 833 |
pah so what! I've bought one anyway (thanks Rambones ;)) so I can replace the faulty 8580 in my C64C... could do with a new one after 17-18 years! |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Devia says 6582 and 8580 sound the same, and essentially ARE the same. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11127 |
they are exactly the same, the die says 8580. |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
have you actually SEEN the die? wow... so far I've only seen them DIE! :(
seriously though, you have a link to show off perhaps? I only know about http://sid.kubarth.com/ and there's not really that much info there.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11127 |
i dont remember where i saw it, sorry, but someone indeed decapped one and checked it. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1056 |
Kevtris, wasn't it? |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
On his "remarked sids" page (http://kevtris.org/Projects/sid/remarked_sids.html) he notes that he has no 6582 at the bottom.
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Zer0-X
Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 78 |
(Real)Azure was the guy in question who had decapped 6582 SID. |
