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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
VIC20, +4, C16 and so on
I think it would be nice to have all Commodore 8 bit machines on the CSDb, it might even generate more demos and stuff for the less common systems. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Yeah, I agree, as long as it's 8-bit.
And DTV, because we have to be pragmatic... |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
I agree here. Plus/4 just has amazing gfx, and Vic20 amazing sound... so as long as it's all 8-bit stuff...
------------------------------------
Knoeki/DigitalSoundsSystem/SwappersWithAttitude |
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A3
Registered: Dec 2005
Posts: 362 |
Why? It's a c64 scene database which has nothing to do with the vic 20 or +4 scene. And the reason that it's 8-bits would qualify alot of other machines aswell. I would rather see databases like this one for those formats instead of mixing it. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 833 |
Get Perff to do either:
1.) Create a couple more sites for Vic20, Plus4 etc, or...
2.) Simply change the logo on the home page to COMMODORE SCENE DATABASE. ;-) |
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
Not as nice as CSDB but indeed a nice starting point for Plus 4: http://plus4.emucamp.com/ |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Quote: I think it would be nice to have all Commodore 8 bit machines on the CSDb, it might even generate more demos and stuff for the less common systems.
If this will happen, I'll turn my back definitely to this site .
*spit*
Some ppl still need to learn what the c64 scene is all about.
Too bad i have to add ptoing to this list now.. :-/ |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Is it about making silly fake groups and stupid jokes?
Also strictly speaking the c128 and dtv are not c64s' even if they are compatible to some extent. |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
As one of the active +4 sceners around, sincerely I see no point in including other Commodore platforms in CSDb: the database is born to serve the bigger c64 past and present (and future!) scene, and currently you can find good similar ones, both for the single machine (+4world, for example) and for several systems (pouet).
It's up to you if somewhere/sometimes the scenes come across (and I think that's kewl anyway) because you wanna spread your experience on different machines. And we just had several examples: MagerValp, Mermaid, TMR, Britelite, 4Mat...
Apropos, the 15 Years Oxyrons Party's winner is there:
http://plus4.emucamp.com/software/Zenith_Of_Puberty |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3035 |
Quote:Is it about making silly fake groups and stupid jokes?
What a reparté. I wonder if you are aware that it's especially picanté in Scoutski's case, or it was just a random shot into the darkness. ;-)) |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
who knows :D |
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Codey
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 79 |
there's already at least one c128 only demo on here. you would think it's 64 only, or everyone gets a pass. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1056 |
C128 and DTV are just expanded C64s, so it makes sense to include them. +4 has its own scene database on emucamp. VIC-20 is the only "homeless" platform, but pouet seems to work ok.
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
and besides C128 and DTV releases in CSDB, there's also a C65 release: C65 Demo
But of course all these systems include the C64 inside. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Magervalp, no c128 and dtv are not expanded c64s.
The c128 was designed from scratch and the designer's (Bill Herd's) main goal was to make it as fuckin c64 compatible as possible, you can thank to him the awesome compatibility level, they have tested and tested, and changed the circuits if found one game that did not work.
The DTV is too obvious to go into details.
I have already started a thread some time ago about this and back then the reactions were all positive. Commodore 8 bits could (should) be supported. The c64 scene were so much bigger that a few hundred other platform release wouldnt hurt jut make csdb and us richer. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Me, i don't mind either way since i play with just about any 8-bit going; being able to put all of Cosine's VIC, C16/Plus/4 and so on releases here (sorry Scout =-) would be nice an' all, but i do have the Cosine site for that as well.
But the whole "purity" argument is indeed shot full of holes; we have C65 and C128 releases, DTV demos (and although it's modelled on a C64, the architecture of the DTV is totally different and it supports stuff the stock hasn't a hope in hell of doing), C64 with REU demos (of which one is mine), products that require hardware like IDE64 which, lets face it, shifts the goalposts a huge distance and SuperCPU releases that go a step further and run away with the goalposts entirely since they're running on a 16-bit processesor that is merely latched to the C64's video system.
It might say C64 scene database up there, but this site side steps into some very grey and fuzzy areas and when you get C64 people doing demos on other Commodore 8-bit machines and even porting their graphics over, things get fuzzier still. |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
Expanding the spectrum (ZOMG! I said "spectrum"!) of CSDb to several other machines would mean to jeopardize (oh well, better to say "rethink") the firm name from the roots.
Ambitious, kewl, large. Not so easy at all, but could be done anyway... |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
It would still all be Commodore, no?
Also how many c16/116/plus4 demos are there? 1000 perhaps? And vic20 is like a handful. If a few of the active sceners would help the extra info would be added in no time, once perff adds the extra release types and stuff (if he wants to that is) |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
Quote: It would still all be Commodore, no?
Also how many c16/116/plus4 demos are there? 1000 perhaps? And vic20 is like a handful. If a few of the active sceners would help the extra info would be added in no time, once perff adds the extra release types and stuff (if he wants to that is)
Yes, +4 demos should be 1400 ca., all-shit-included. And: yes, there would be few categories to be added into (SIDcard, 16K...). |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Platform tag & other ideas |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Even though I'm a huge fan of every scene platform, especially those related to Commodore, I have always opposed the idea of extending CSDb with anything that has no strong connection to C64. C128 and DTV have much closer communion to C64 than the machines mentioned in the topic title. Let's not put here every engine just for the sake of the "Commodore" prefix...
The database is already quite bloated, hard to navigate, full of usability glitches so I'd rather like to see more improvements done on the layout (or on fixes and updates some of us proposed), rather than filling it up with several thousands of releases which have absolutely nothing to do with C64. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
I think a Platform tag as suggested by Oswald in the other thread would make most the sense. keep all the things like Demo, Trackmo, Graphics and so on and seperate it from the C64, DTV, C128 and so on. Would make more sense in either case, added platforms or not. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Quote:I think a Platform tag as suggested by Oswald (...) As long as it was suggested by Oswald, consider it a lost battle :)
Edit: on the other hand, a platform view mode similar to the current crack/demo separation would probably solve the thing and make everyone happy. But I doubt Perff will ever implement the basic idea in the first place so... :/ |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Quote:The database is already quite bloated, hard to navigate, full of usability glitches so I'd rather like to see more improvements done on the layout (or on fixes and updates some of us proposed)
The CSDb website is clearly an interface that has been developed around the data, with the needed patches, fixes and additions.
IMHO, it wouldn't hurt if a well thought out design would replace the current skin of links, tabs and radio buttons. One done by a team of people with specialised experience in interface design.
It's been said that we are talking about Perff's database here, but it might have grown bigger than that. It's financially supported by users and serves a great deal of people. So, no offense Perff, but the time might have come that one needs to delegate...
On the platform side:
As TMR pointed out, there's a large, grey and fuzzie area between the C64 and the other 8 bit machines.
PET hasn't been mentioned yet, but this would also be a valid machine...
So we're on dangerous grounds when it comes to defining the borders of what's admissable and what's not. And given the amount of people attending CSDb and the differences between them, it's probably next to impossible to set the boundaries.
The discussions about entries have always been about if it was released by a scener. The existance of the discussions alone, proove that the scene is too vague a concept.
And like setting the boundaries based upon hardware specs, it's also not very likely we succeed in defining 'the scene'.
Some people seem to want a collection as narrow as possible (Scout, Violator), others (Ptoing, me) wouldn't mind a broader perspective. The first poses the question "what IS allowed?", the second "What's NOT allowed.".
Since both questions are equally hard to answer, especially given the fuzziness involved, perhaps it's best to not change anything yet. Leave the DTV, C128 and SuperCPU stuff where it is for now, and let's improve the database as a whole first.
We've got EmuCamp, Pouet and loads of other websites to upload/download anything we like, so clearly there's no need for a place to store things. It will be there anyway. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675 |
nice saying mace.
My small contribution: who wants his non-c64/128/dtv release added specifically here anyway?
I guess the number is pretty small even though the Oxyparty made certain interconnections obvious. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
VIC20 is very C64-related because all VIC20 stuff is made by people from the C64 scene. So basically the VIC20 scene is a subset of the C64 scene.
On +4 it's less C64 related, but still the +4 scene shares a lot of people with the C64 scene aswell.
I think that both platforms would make sense here.
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: nice saying mace.
My small contribution: who wants his non-c64/128/dtv release added specifically here anyway?
I guess the number is pretty small even though the Oxyparty made certain interconnections obvious.
Well, if i have to pick a camp (since i rather carefully avoided doing so in my other post =-) i'd like to be able to add Cosine's VIC, C16/Plus/4 and so on stuff to the database as well - but i'd like to see the option to fall back to "CSDb Classic", removing everything bar stock C64 for the purists out there.
In our case, all the work for those platforms was done by C64 sceners... |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
I think it mostly affects the "new releases" and "new downloads" list. Here it can be annoying to have unwanted stuff, and infact it IS already annoying because you cannot filter out the stuff you are not looking for. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Quote: I think it mostly affects the "new releases" and "new downloads" list. Here it can be annoying to have unwanted stuff, and infact it IS already annoying because you cannot filter out the stuff you are not looking for.
That's why a Platform View Mode would solve the whole matter. I think that both sides should be pleased with such a solution. Don't want other platforms than C64? Simply turn them off. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
If CSDB will become the Commodore Scene database I will start adding Amiga demos right away. And I won't stop there (Commodore made PCs as well, and I'm pretty sure my pascal demos from 1990 will run on these) :)
@Mace: just because you don't know about plans for an improved csdb doesn't mean there aren't any. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
We said 8 bit. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Quote:@Mace: just because you don't know about plans for an improved csdb doesn't mean there aren't any.
@The Dark Judge: you can't quote me saying that there aren't any plans ;-) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: We said 8 bit.
Doesn't matter to me, Commodore is more than 8 bit machines only. So Amiga & PCs it is then. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Quote:@Mace: just because you don't know about plans for an improved csdb doesn't mean there aren't any.
@The Dark Judge: you can't quote me saying that there aren't any plans ;-)
No, but I can quote you on saying that Perff should delegate, which he already has done. Now, he can't help it that the people he delegated to are lazy as hell ;) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quote: That's why a Platform View Mode would solve the whole matter. I think that both sides should be pleased with such a solution. Don't want other platforms than C64? Simply turn them off.
Not only platform, but also release type. For example: exclude cracks or exclude music + pictures etc. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
@TDJ: Cool :-)
And considering your Amiga & PC remark: point taken. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Amiga doesn't belong to the same family of computers.
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A3
Registered: Dec 2005
Posts: 362 |
Quote: Not only platform, but also release type. For example: exclude cracks or exclude music + pictures etc.
Well you do have the option already to toggle the view mode for legal or illegal or normal. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Just looked at the current state of "CSDb polution": It's 0.038% C128 releases (17) and 0.088% DTV releases (39). Does anyone think that adding those 40 VIC 20 releases would do ANY kind of harm? Those releases were made by people like Cosine, Creators, Dekadence, K2 etc. All people which I would call C64 sceners in the first place and all of them have CSDb entries already. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
I wouldnt mind other 8bit commodore machines on csdb, but vice versa, it'd be bad for the other systems, cause c64 is gonna get the most attention on here (or anywhere).
a dedicated site would be best (possibly linked to csdb, like pouet and hvsc is) for everybody.
(if the above was suggested already, sorry, didnt read anything before sharing my own pov;)
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
there were several attempst for a VIC20 database, none led to success til now. my very first own computer where I learned coding. |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
@Burglar: I can only speak for vic20, but they dont want more attention, just a Place to gather.. vic20-folks would not mind beeing completely ignored from c64only folks...
for +4, things might be different, plus they have a site...
and what rough said
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
My conclusion after this discussion would be:
Allow C128, VIC-20 and DTV releases, but keep the 264 platform stuff apart on the EmuCamp website.
Let me hear your votes, please! |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
As far as I'm concerned, I'm still not too fond about anything non-c64 related here but I also understand those who would like to upload their works from other C= platforms, especially as they're all active on the C64 scene as well... If my vote counts, I say yes. Bring (all of) them, but in that case a separated view-mode would be highly appreciated (C64/Non-C64 or something similar).
Still, Perff's vote counts the most here and I can't recall he expressed his opinion about this yet. |
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Yoko Tv Inc.
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 68 |
i think adding vic20 , plus4 and dtv stuff here is a good idea. |
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cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 932 |
Quote: i think adding vic20 , plus4 and dtv stuff here is a good idea.
DTV stuff is already here, further my opinion is to
keep csdb pure C64 only ....
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Yoko Tv Inc.
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 68 |
simply make it a commodore scene database and not only c64 --
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2896 |
http://www.commodore16.com/
http://www.cbm264.com/
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Tao
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 115 |
I'd definitely like to see VIC20, +4 and C16 here... Any year now I'll hack up a VIC20 demo myself =) |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
like its already said, that 40 entries of c128 and vic20 releases wouldn't harm csdb. when my groep is mainly c64, but did some c128 releases and a nice vic20 demo...where should i put it? its still 8 bit and familair with the c64.
i would like to see it in my group releases too, with a small remark that it's not c64 but vic20 or c128.
@tdj: coz that commodore made pc's doesn't mean that those pc's belong to the c64 family. maybe it is but the c64 and vic20 are close family and 8 bit.
well, let's await the plans for this database for the future :p
-2 start press any key..where is the any key?- |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: like its already said, that 40 entries of c128 and vic20 releases wouldn't harm csdb. when my groep is mainly c64, but did some c128 releases and a nice vic20 demo...where should i put it? its still 8 bit and familair with the c64.
i would like to see it in my group releases too, with a small remark that it's not c64 but vic20 or c128.
@tdj: coz that commodore made pc's doesn't mean that those pc's belong to the c64 family. maybe it is but the c64 and vic20 are close family and 8 bit.
well, let's await the plans for this database for the future :p
-2 start press any key..where is the any key?-
I never said they belonged to the c64 family, but some people here stated that csdb should become the Commodore scene database, in which case Amiga & PC productions should be allowed too.
On a different note: About 10 years ago I was in Analogue, a PC demo group with lots of (ex) c64 sceners. Why shouldn't I be allowed to add the stuff we did back then as well? Music by Metal, Laxity, Drax, Jeroen Tel, graphics by Mirage & Hein .. I don't see any problem ;) And what about Smash Designs? Their PC demos belong here too! Just like the non-c64 FLT stuff! BRING IT ALL IN I SAY!
Or better still, let's just leave this be as a c64 scene database. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
TDJ, no need to base your arguments on logics, as this is a matter of taste. Noone who is beside the idea said they want to see pc or amiga prods.
I think anyone who supports this, thinks in this category: any commodore 8bitter.
IMHO csdb and the c64 scene would be a much richer community with spreading our view. Can anyone bring up arguments against this ? Or its just a leftover narrowminded machine addiction from the eigthies ?
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
I see no harm in adding VIC20/C128/DTV releases to CSDb. For i.e. the Plus4 scene there are already vibrant community sites, but perhaps those releases should be welcome here as well. I mean, it's not as if the focus is going to shift from C64 to any other platform, given the machine's history... |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Oswald, I would rather see PC and Amiga demos here than Vic20 stuff etc. Why would my preference for that be worth less than those of others? |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
stop trolling, tdj
we are talking 8bit here, if you are a pc-demo love, go to pouet
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: stop trolling, tdj
we are talking 8bit here, if you are a pc-demo love, go to pouet
And if you are a Vic20, +4, C16 and so on lover, fuck off as well.
*You* are talking 8 bit, I am talking scenes connected to the c64. That can be amiga and pc as well. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
If you talk about VIC20 scene, you don't talk about a "scene connected to the 64" but you ARE talking about the 64 scene. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: If you talk about VIC20 scene, you don't talk about a "scene connected to the 64" but you ARE talking about the 64 scene.
Not in my eyes, sorry. Just because it's the same people doesn't mean it's the same scene.
Also, to be clear: I'm not proposing to enter all amiga & pc demos ever made, just those made by c64 sceners. I for one would love to find out who did what on other platforms. And if the vic20 etc. stuff can be added, this should be done as well. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Quote: Not in my eyes, sorry. Just because it's the same people doesn't mean it's the same scene.
Also, to be clear: I'm not proposing to enter all amiga & pc demos ever made, just those made by c64 sceners. I for one would love to find out who did what on other platforms. And if the vic20 etc. stuff can be added, this should be done as well.
TJD, this would only shift the discussion to who's a scener and who's not.
For instance: are those Amiga demos made by C64 sceners or are the C64 demos made by Amiga sceners?
And what about Amiga/PC demos that are made by a group of persons, of which not all were active on C64?
I think it would be better to add a feature to have external releases attached to a scener. You can already add an external link, but then the release is still in the database.
For this Amiga/PC stuff, we'd need something to add external release links to a scener instead. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
The outer-c64 links thing could be interessting, but I think it would at least need another page per scener, as in not displayed on the same page as the C64/whatever Commodore 8 bit stuff. Like "View other releases" or something.
As for the Vic20 Scene, IT IS the C64 Scene in effect, I agree with Graham there. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: The outer-c64 links thing could be interessting, but I think it would at least need another page per scener, as in not displayed on the same page as the C64/whatever Commodore 8 bit stuff. Like "View other releases" or something.
As for the Vic20 Scene, IT IS the C64 Scene in effect, I agree with Graham there.
So I'm in the Vic20 scene as well? Cool .. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Well, there NOONE in the VIC20 scene who is not in the C64 scene and I think it is highly unlikely that that will change. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
VIC20 = sub-scene :-P |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
lets be on topic:
VIC20, +4, C16 and so on
I think it would be nice to have all Commodore 8 bit machines on the CSDb, it might even generate more demos and stuff for the less common systems.
this was the question.
no pc or amiga. commodore 8bit.
tdj, i dont see your point in what you really want with your contribution here. you want it more open? pc releases from c64 sceners doesn't belong to an 8bit database, right? :)
i like the idea of mace: maybe a sub data base. whatever. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
the scene is shrinking, and uniting with the other systems would give a wider horizon. |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
agreed.
but not with c64 sceners adding their pc demos. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
simply we'll ban tdj when he starts doing that. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Quote: the scene is shrinking, and uniting with the other systems would give a wider horizon.
United we stand, divided we fall! All hail the Commodore 8 bit revolution! |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
lol :) |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
I think TDJ's point was the 'social network' behind the Amiga and PC demos. Perhaps it's not the demos he's interested in as a product on their own, but as a product of sceners.
The danger is that it might grow to a mega network with uncontrolable boundaries.
So, we have different ideas:
1) C64 only, not other machine
2) C64, C128, DTV, all able to produce the blue boot screen.
3) C64, C128, DTV, VIC-20
4) C64, C128, DTV, Plus/4, C16, VIC-20 (the 8 bitters, with DTV as a sidestep)
5) The above + Amiga (all post-PET Commodore computers)
6) The above + PC (endless...)
Personally, I could live with 2, 3 and 4, with a preference in that same order. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quote: So I'm in the Vic20 scene as well? Cool ..
I'm in the C64 scene but not in the C64 cracker scene, so what? You can be in the C64 scene without being in all of it's sub-scenes. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
With mace, for personal preference i'd be happy with either 3 or 4 on his list. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: lets be on topic:
VIC20, +4, C16 and so on
I think it would be nice to have all Commodore 8 bit machines on the CSDb, it might even generate more demos and stuff for the less common systems.
this was the question.
no pc or amiga. commodore 8bit.
tdj, i dont see your point in what you really want with your contribution here. you want it more open? pc releases from c64 sceners doesn't belong to an 8bit database, right? :)
i like the idea of mace: maybe a sub data base. whatever.
Drake, please get it in your head: THIS IS NOT AN 8 BIT DATABASE!!! THIS IS A C64 SCENE DATABASE!!! Just because you want it to be something doesn't mean I have to follow your rules. WTF are you anyway? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: simply we'll ban tdj when he starts doing that.
Dear Oswald, you couldn't even ban the zits on your ass. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I think TDJ's point was the 'social network' behind the Amiga and PC demos. Perhaps it's not the demos he's interested in as a product on their own, but as a product of sceners.
The danger is that it might grow to a mega network with uncontrolable boundaries.
So, we have different ideas:
1) C64 only, not other machine
2) C64, C128, DTV, all able to produce the blue boot screen.
3) C64, C128, DTV, VIC-20
4) C64, C128, DTV, Plus/4, C16, VIC-20 (the 8 bitters, with DTV as a sidestep)
5) The above + Amiga (all post-PET Commodore computers)
6) The above + PC (endless...)
Personally, I could live with 2, 3 and 4, with a preference in that same order.
Yes Mace, you understand me: that's exactly what I'm interested in :) Finally somebody who doesn't start screaming "no no it izze not 8 bit!" right away ;) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I'm in the C64 scene but not in the C64 cracker scene, so what? You can be in the C64 scene without being in all of it's sub-scenes.
Yes, but there's a difference between claiming that the vic20 scene is the c64 scene, and the vic20 scene is a subset of the c64 scene. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
By the way, I prefer option #1 from Mace's list. But if there has to be other stuff, then I want amiga & pc productions done by c64 sceners as well here. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
I prefer #4, but if it has to be #1 then I want all sceners suck my dinky in abc order. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Quote: By the way, I prefer option #1 from Mace's list. But if there has to be other stuff, then I want amiga & pc productions done by c64 sceners as well here.
how about eventual spectrum or atari productions by c64 sceners? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: how about eventual spectrum or atari productions by c64 sceners?
No prob :) |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
I vote for option #4... and as already said, you will barely notice anything because there aren't that much releases. Also, I agree on the fact that we should broaden our horizons...
TDJ: stop playing a CEB all the time. it's fucking annoying.
------------------------------------
Knoeki/DigitalSoundsSystem/SwappersWithAttitude |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I vote for option #4... and as already said, you will barely notice anything because there aren't that much releases. Also, I agree on the fact that we should broaden our horizons...
TDJ: stop playing a CEB all the time. it's fucking annoying.
------------------------------------
Knoeki/DigitalSoundsSystem/SwappersWithAttitude
I'm not playing anything, I actually care about csdb instead of wanting my own non-c64 productions available in a place it doesn't belong.
Also, I actually am part of the csdb v2 development team. That means I put my money where my mouth is, instead of just shouting stupid things in threads and getting mad when they don't happen. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Nothing seems too fair as long as the PalmOS and GBC demos I've participated in won't show up 'ere as well! GBC is 8bit, rite? |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
not commodore tho :P But yeh, we might as well make this pouet 2.
But seriously tho, the VIC20 Scene at least has no true home, consists only of C64 peops, and is the direct predecessor of the C64. So what does speak against that? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
how many times do we need to tell you that we'd like to see commodore 8bits here.
you're ammazingly narrow minded.
oh, and TDJ, tell us about your work as the member of CSDB V2 team, we have seen nothing since a year or so since the idea emerged. Any progress, did you do anything useful as the team member or you just use the title for the synonym of leet? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: how many times do we need to tell you that we'd like to see commodore 8bits here.
you're ammazingly narrow minded.
oh, and TDJ, tell us about your work as the member of CSDB V2 team, we have seen nothing since a year or so since the idea emerged. Any progress, did you do anything useful as the team member or you just use the title for the synonym of leet?
Given the fact that this is one of the very few times I made myself known as a member of the development team you can hardly say I 'use' that title for elite-ness, can you? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
yeah, thats just part of the bitching. however to me it looks that more ppl agree with this idea that are against it. we should make a vote wether platforms should be supported by csdb v2. having already c128 and dtv releases here, and the little effort (one more column in the table) makes me feel it will be done. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quote: Yes, but there's a difference between claiming that the vic20 scene is the c64 scene, and the vic20 scene is a subset of the c64 scene.
I claimed the 2nd. Look at my post from 2007-02-26 15:43. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
its only a matter of taste that how you look at that. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
its time for a poll.
or do you guys want to stretch this thread some more so we can repeat our arguments over and over. |
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A3
Registered: Dec 2005
Posts: 362 |
Quote: its time for a poll.
or do you guys want to stretch this thread some more so we can repeat our arguments over and over.
Don't know we might have to vote about that too.
Seriously though a poll would be nice. |
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d0c
Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 186 |
i vote 2 from that list... |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
*remembers the transparant-voting poll and starts laughing* |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
A poll would be nice, yeh. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Quote: A poll would be nice, yeh.
Just to make sure we all talk about the same thing: you too mean a poll that will never be acted upon, and can be repeated next year, right? |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Quoting Oswaldhow many times do we need to tell you that we'd like to see commodore 8bits here.
you're ammazingly narrow minded.
Oswald chill, I was joking. Besides, I don't care any more at all. Seems some of you guys can't discuss a simple matter without shitting in each others' mouth. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Jailbird, it was tdj who started flaming in this topic. and you all know me I catch fire easily. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
OK, but then instead of taking one of the two sides, what about finding a bloody solution that is good for everyone?
I am also very far from being a mature person but the last time I've witnessed a similar discussion was somewhere in the kindergarten when we were trying to decide who owns the only ball on the playground. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Jailbird, it was tdj who started flaming in this topic. and you all know me I catch fire easily.
Ah, so now being against an idea and coming up with an alternative is flaming, right?
Your life must be hell. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
TDJ, what is your alternative, Im eager to learn it. To let pc and amiga demos also in ? or to not make any changes and sticking to c64 only ?
the solution is clearly what jailbird and probably others alread proposed:
when tdj or jailbird is browsing:
SELECT ...... FROM csdb WHERE ..... AND platform="c64" |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Okay, I read the thread and counted votes.
Some of you weren't exactly clear on all points, but I did my best to categorise anyway.
The list again:
1) C64 only, not other machine
2) C64, C128, DTV, all able to produce the blue boot screen.
3) C64, C128, DTV, VIC-20
4) C64, C128, DTV, Plus/4, C16, VIC-20 (the 8 bitters, with DTV as a sidestep)
5) The above + Amiga (all post-PET Commodore computers)
6) The above + PC (endless...)
1 2 3 4 5 6
CBA - * - - - -
Doc - * - - - -
Drake - - * * - -
Graham - - * - - -
Jailbird - * - * - -
Knoeki - - - * - -
Mace - * * * - -
MagerValp - - * - - -
Oswald - - - * - -
Ptoing - - - * - -
RadiantX - - * - - -
Ready - * - - - -
Scout * - - - - -
TDJ * - - - - *
TMR - - * * - -
YokoTV - - - * - -
Luca (not clear)
Moloch (not clear)
From the 16 people who had a clear 'vote', these are the results:
1) 2
2) 5
3) 6
4) 8
5) 0
6) 1
This means that half of the people in this thread would like to see the 264-platform on CSDb too.
But beware: the conclusion should NOT be that therefor this platform should be added.
This wasn't a clear poll, because we only voted in favour of something and not against the other options. So someone who voted in favour of option 4 doesn't necessarily have to be against the other options.
So in this case we shouldn't go for the highest number of votes, untill everybody clearly voted in favour AND against all respective options.
Apart from that, the ones who voted are just a very small part of the people on CSDb. This means this is far from democratic.
The only conclusion I dare to draw is that adding more than just C64 is not something a lot of people object against. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
I'm in favour of no. 4 category as well. I'd also like to see about demos/cwacks released on other Commodore 8 bit machines (PET etc). These releases don't get as much attention as C64 releases and can be inspiring to some. |
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Tao
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 115 |
I'm in favour of option 4 and dead set against options 5 + 6. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
I favor 4,3,2 in that order. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675 |
my ranks:
3
2,4
1
|
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Ah well, could tell my opinion too instead of inserting just random sarcastic remark: since there's already C128, DTV, SuperCPU etc. stuff here anyway, and going more puritan at this point doesn't seem worth enforcing, I'd be in favor of 4) too |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
no. 4 seems a good one IMO.
|
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
@Mace: You can put me to 4. I am not opposed to +4 on CDDb although I think it's links to C64 are weaker than those of the VIC20. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
(Hopefully you all understand that I'm merely collecting votes here. I am not at all part of the "1337" behind CSDb ;-) ) |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
Ok, Luca prefers options 1 and 4. |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
3 is my favorite, 2 is the harsh reality, and 1 would be a backstep.
dunno if +4 folks are interested in 4, but instead of 5 and 6, people can just write links in their trivia.
just my 0.02
|
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Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 404 |
For what it (=this discussion ;)) is worth, option 2 is my favourite. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: 3 is my favorite, 2 is the harsh reality, and 1 would be a backstep.
dunno if +4 folks are interested in 4, but instead of 5 and 6, people can just write links in their trivia.
just my 0.02
It's not about links, it's about providing a structured environment to put your information in.
Now, what I really don't get: why would it not be okay to add pc & amiga stuff as well, if filters are introduced that create views on the different platforms? If I can check a box to make sure that I don't see any Vic20 stuff, Tao could check a box to make sure he doesn't see any amiga stuff, right?
I know people like to think I'm just trolling around 'coz I ask the hard questions, but nobody has given me any good answers yet. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
because we dont want them. just like you dont want anything but c64. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: because we dont want them. just like you dont want anything but c64.
Still, if they could be hidden you don't have to see them. It's the exact same reasoning that's been used to convince me to make the csdb open for vic20 etc.
I can come up with only one conclusion: you guys are full of shit. |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
TDJ: I understand that you are more focussing on the social aspects of the scene, and thats fine and good.
But if you also allow upload of pc-demos, 1 pc-demo would take as much space as ca. 400 c64 demos...
Furthermore, we dont want to put too much workload on perff, and the vic20 option would mean very few additional work.
And as a third reason, there is already a platform for pcs, but no platform for the vic20 scene.
|
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: TDJ: I understand that you are more focussing on the social aspects of the scene, and thats fine and good.
But if you also allow upload of pc-demos, 1 pc-demo would take as much space as ca. 400 c64 demos...
Furthermore, we dont want to put too much workload on perff, and the vic20 option would mean very few additional work.
And as a third reason, there is already a platform for pcs, but no platform for the vic20 scene.
Yago, I don't care about the files (disable upload for pc & amiga demos), I just want the information. And you can use the exact same datamodel for the c64 demos as for the other stuff. Furthermore, yes, there may be a platform for pc (pouet) but it doesn't provide me with the same rich data that csdb does. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
TDJ, in my first reply to you in this thread I told you that this is only about taste no need to try to reasoning. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Comparing the Amiga and PC scene to VIC-20 scene is not correct, as proven earlier.
Because ALL VIC-20 sceners are also part of the C64 scene. But there is no 1-on-1 relation like that between Amiga/PC-scene and C64 scene.
If you want social structures, one could think of a feature added to the profile: "Releases on other platforms".
Underneath the user could add the names of the productions, with credits and perhaps a link to an external download.
No need to mention Amiga or PC, because it could well be Atari, Mac or any other machine then.
Quote:I can come up with only one conclusion: you guys are full of shit.
That is not a very mature way of reasoning, TDJ. Let's keep it civilised, please. |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
TDJ, well the amount of scener from c64->vic20 is prolly much smaller then c64->pc..
look at the "new platform" vic20 as a testcase, IF perff implements it, we can iron out the errors, before pc-sceners invade csdb (some of them are pretty braindead, considering pouet)
however, this whole thread is nothing more then hot air, if perff is against it :-)
|
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Well, before Perff finds anything of this, I suggest we first unite into one idea.
As long as 'we, the users' can't figure out what we want, why should Perff even bother looking into it? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Well, before Perff finds anything of this, I suggest we first unite into one idea.
As long as 'we, the users' can't figure out what we want, why should Perff even bother looking into it?
There is no 'we, the users' as a united front. That being said, *if* vic20 entries will become possible I for one won't stop visiting csdb or something. I just don't like it.
Or, in the words of a great man: "grmbl!".
And you're still full of shit.
Wait .. wait for it ..
;-) |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Quote:Or, in the words of a great man: "grmbl!".
I feel honored! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
TDJ, stick csdb v2 deep up your ass, and after pulling it out check it to learn who is full of shit. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: TDJ, stick csdb v2 deep up your ass, and after pulling it out check it to learn who is full of shit.
It says: O.S.W.A.L.D. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
You may turn my flamings against me, but you will never manage to keep csdb v2 c64 only. Calling the community full of shit wont help either. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: You may turn my flamings against me, but you will never manage to keep csdb v2 c64 only. Calling the community full of shit wont help either.
I don't call the community full of shit, just certain parts of it ;)
And please try to read what I write: I may be against the idea but that doesn't mean that I will start making amok when it is fullfilled. So if Perff goes ahead with it, it wouldn't change my involvement with csdb.
Now compare that with your "I don't want csdb open for amiga & pc even though it would cause me no problems because!". Hmmm ... |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
would the 2 of you please stop pouetizing this thread?
|
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
TDJ, I find it very disappointing that you, as member of the CSDB development team, are the only one reacting off the mark and childish in this thread. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Tdj, it begins with that noone wants adding pc and amiga demos. not even you. What for should I be tolerant? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: TDJ, I find it very disappointing that you, as member of the CSDB development team, are the only one reacting off the mark and childish in this thread.
And I find it very disappointing that, just because I don't agree with you here, you keep trying to make me look bad. Doesn't matter that I've already said a million times that I won't try to stop the addition of vic20 entries etc., I guess you really want me to like it as well.
I believe in democracy, which is also the right of somebody to be against something. Somehow it seems that is not possible here.
Are you Borg? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Tdj, it begins with that noone wants adding pc and amiga demos. not even you. What for should I be tolerant?
Not what I said. Many people above have given a list of choices in order of preference. I have done so too, but let me make it clear once more:
(1)
(2)
(5)
So, IF we're gonna add other platforms as well, I want amiga and pc TOO. It's not that hard to understand, is it?
|
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
TDJ just stated his idea, I neither do understand why are you trying to convince him about the opposite of his choice? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
tdj just stated his idea:
"And if you are a Vic20, +4, C16 and so on lover, fuck off as well."
"WTF are you anyway?"
"Dear Oswald, you couldn't even ban the zits on your ass."
"I put my money where my mouth is, instead of just shouting stupid things in threads and getting mad when they don't happen."
"you guys are full of shit."
|
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
I think he was mostly sarcastic but it was maybe only my impression. Besided Oswald, you weren't better yourself. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Thank you TDJ, for stating your preferences with reference to my little list.
It wasn't my intention to make you look bad. It was my intention to make clear to you that you were doing a fine job at that yourself. Which is a shame, because the idea behind what you said was quite a contribution to the discussion. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Gosh Oswald, isn't it easy to take comments out of context and then present them in a list? Fortunately not everybody is as stupid as you want them to be (thanks Jailbaby). |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Jailbird, I have started flaming _only_after_ the last quote. Enough is Enough.
Tdj, quotes are always out of context. I cant help that.
the fact is that you came here shouting nasty words at everyone who wanted csdb be more than c64 only. My sin is that your trolling managed to boil my brain.
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Jailbird, I have started flaming _only_after_ the last quote. Enough is Enough.
Tdj, quotes are always out of context. I cant help that.
the fact is that you came here shouting nasty words at everyone who wanted csdb be more than c64 only. My sin is that your trolling managed to boil my brain.
You know what .. never mind. Obviously people can be rude to me but I'm not allowed to be rude back. Well, fuck you :) |
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The Overkiller
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342 |
My vote: 1 .... it's ok 2 too at least. |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
4) C64, C128, DTV, Plus/4, C16, VIC-20
3) C64, C128, DTV, VIC-20
Furthermore I think you all need a hug. |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
i only want a hug when rude |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Quote: i only want a hug when rude
FUCK YOU DRAKE!
K, now go to mermaid. ;)
I've changed my mind btw (thanx to the Vic20 demo by K2)... sign me up for 4. |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
i love it :p |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Quote: FUCK YOU DRAKE!
K, now go to mermaid. ;)
I've changed my mind btw (thanx to the Vic20 demo by K2)... sign me up for 4.
\:D/ |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Wouldn't mind seeing Vic20 stuff here either. As for the other platforms, I don't know... |
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A3
Registered: Dec 2005
Posts: 362 |
Been thinking about this one for some time now.
sure add some vic 20 stuff so my answer is option number 3.
3) C64, C128, DTV, VIC-20 |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Any news about this? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Any news about this?
Yes, last night Perff told me that this will become a plus/4 database only. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Ah great.
You don't have a Plus/4, have you, TDJ?
So we won't be seeing you here anymore, then?
|
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
As i see it there's only two ways to go: Either number (1) or number (6). I agree totally with TDJ. Either way, not just some +4 releases here and there... |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
As a reminder:
1) C64 only, not other machine
2) C64, C128, DTV, all able to produce the blue boot screen.
3) C64, C128, DTV, VIC-20
4) C64, C128, DTV, Plus/4, C16, VIC-20 (the 8 bitters, with DTV as a sidestep)
5) The above + Amiga (all post-PET Commodore computers)
6) The above + PC (endless...)
I dont see why only 1) or 6) is possible..
I'd vote for 3), mainly because the plus4-folks have their own database, and noone showed up here to raise his fist for +4.
The Vic20 Folks, OTOH, are presented here already with their c64 stuff, and dont have a home!
|
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675 |
and Im still on 3, too. Though I'd be ok with 4 as well since it wont make a big difference anyway. |
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aeeben
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 42 |
Why not add an extra option for c-64 purists, which hides the non-c64-releases? |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quote: Why not add an extra option for c-64 purists, which hides the non-c64-releases?
Yeps, I mentioned it already. Not only for excluding other platform releases, but also filter out cracks or demos etc. |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
come on! we need Vic20, plus/4, C16, etc... it attracts sexy women...:
:D :D :D :D
------------------------------------
Knoeki/DigitalSoundsSystem/SwappersWithAttitude |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 89 |
Ill go for number 4 !
Why?
Easier to get almost all the Cosine releases.... ;-) |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1665 |
I guess it's about time (or WAY overdue? :) ) that I get involved in this.
I havn't read every single post in this thread so if I've missed something importaint please repost. :)
I think I can say that 5 & 6 are out of the question?
Currently we are actually at 2. We got a cattegory for C128 and DTV stuff. Not that there are many entries within these categories, but they exist.
I sugest that we could add three new categories: Plus/4, C16 and VIC-20. Did I miss some?
There will be no sub-types for these, like we don't currently have subtypes for C128 and DTV.
Then we could add a feature, like the one we have now to filter out demos or cracks, to filter out non-c64 stuff, if people prefer that.
How does that sound? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Perff, I think with that everyone will be happy, atleast I am :) |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
\:D/ |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675 |
sounds good to me as well.
Just one thing :o)
would it be hard to have some sort of selection-matrix?
So not just "all" OR "c64 only" but a personal selection as in: "I want to see the following: O C64 / O DTV / O C16 / etc."?
Im ok with all or c64 only though.
|
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Quote: \:D/
\o/ |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
YAY! go perff! \o/ \o/ ^_^ :D :D
------------------------------------
Knoeki/DigitalSoundsSystem/SwappersWithAttitude |
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
Keep the Commodore 64 Scene Data Base CLEAN for gods sake. WHY on earth would someone want Vic 20 and +4 added here? I can't belive it, unfuckingbelivable. What's wrong with you guys? I would say the AMIGA has more in common to the c64 then the younger brothers, and don't whine about them beeing 8-bit and shit. Just had to express me feelings, get real! |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
I have to admit that adding VIC20 stuff would have its own reason (as someone had just pointed out before): there's no VIC20 online database atm, whereas 264 machines have their own. Drastically enlarging the range of covered system could result as a rough choice, a virus inoculation... |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
I was a bit skeptic about plus/4 (etc.) too at first... untill I saw 2 fucking huge twister... and I'm a sucker for sexy effects. ;)
furthermore, I want to announce that I might port my next c64 demo to Vic20, and maybe plus/4 and c16.
------------------------------------
Knoeki/DigitalSoundsSystem/SwappersWithAttitude |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
SiXX: the reason for adding at least VIC-20 is stated above, for the rest I suggest you read this thread agian. All the pros and cons are mentioned. You are not the only one against it, but the majority of ppl in this thread agree that solely C64 is not the way to go.
For the rest, what Enthusi said: a selection matrix would be a very powerful tool for this database. |
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aeeben
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 42 |
You can always use a family filter to block any pages with the VIC word |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
Quote: I guess it's about time (or WAY overdue? :) ) that I get involved in this.
I havn't read every single post in this thread so if I've missed something importaint please repost. :)
I think I can say that 5 & 6 are out of the question?
Currently we are actually at 2. We got a cattegory for C128 and DTV stuff. Not that there are many entries within these categories, but they exist.
I sugest that we could add three new categories: Plus/4, C16 and VIC-20. Did I miss some?
There will be no sub-types for these, like we don't currently have subtypes for C128 and DTV.
Then we could add a feature, like the one we have now to filter out demos or cracks, to filter out non-c64 stuff, if people prefer that.
How does that sound?
Btw, time to say this: separated scenes don't exists between c16 ad +4. C16 demos must be considered as a demo type, like for 128bytes demos or 256k-expanded or 4K. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1056 |
Maybe the category should be TED instead?
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
TED?
Shouldn't it be 364-series (or what's the number?)?
Or 7501 CPU? |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
Category: 264 series machines (or TED, yeah would work too...)
Apart of the C64 usual ones (Demo, Game, 1K etc...), some types should be added too:
- 256k demo (that's the most widely used +4 expansion)
- C16/+4 Demo (different from +4 Demo)
- 128bytes Intro (I guess C64 needs it too...)
and some flags should be used too:
- SIDcard
- 1551 Compatible
- 1551 Only
Mmmm, are you pretty sure about including +4 stuff here? :O |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
@ Luca: no, nobody is sure. We're exploring the consequences.
From what I've seen untill now, I'd say we should do C64, DTV, C128 and VIC20. There's no real need to add the Plus/4 and C16 stuff. They are less related and have their own webspace too. |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
Quote: @ Luca: no, nobody is sure. We're exploring the consequences.
From what I've seen untill now, I'd say we should do C64, DTV, C128 and VIC20. There's no real need to add the Plus/4 and C16 stuff. They are less related and have their own webspace too.
Mace, you know it, I second you.
I only tried to be useful here. |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
nah, I still want plus/4 stuff here too... if you don't want it, there should be an option to not show it, as mentioned above.
------------------------------------
Knoeki/DigitalSoundsSystem/SwappersWithAttitude |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
*bump!*
Any news when this will be implemented?
To be honest, the +4-scene have their own database but the Vic-20 hasn't.
So adding the Vic-20 as platform would be nice for starters.
And like somebody already said in this thread, the Vic20 scene consists (almost) of C64 sceners.
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A3
Registered: Dec 2005
Posts: 362 |
Another dead topic? So nothing came of this? |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Personally I was hoping that at least the 'new' CSDB will have this system.
It would be even better if it was implemented right away, as I don't think it is very much more work than most other changes that have been made recently. |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1665 |
Just to let you know, this little project is still kinda active. The main thing that needs to be done is to make a full customizable which-release-types-do-I-want-to-see, in addition to the simple "normal, demo scene, crack scene" selection that is here already. I guess we can all agree on this?
When this will be done I can't say for sure, but hopefully soon.. !! ?? :)
Edit: The custom view mode now exists. Enjoy. (Note: As the old view-modes this does not work for the entire system yet) |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Wow, looks good! Now add the other platforms and we're there! \o/ |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1665 |
Just one thing missing. What was actually the sum-up of which types should be added, and which types should be shown as default? (Normal viewing mode)
Perhaps there should also be a C64-only view mode. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Well, now that you added the basic framework and everyone can switch out what he doesn't want to see, I can think of no reason to not include C16, +4 and VIC-20.
The majority went for only allowing VIC-20 in addition to what we already have, though.
But it's up to you, Perff, really. People won't stone you to death in any case, as the solution you prepared allows for easy filtering of unwanted content. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Any news considering this topic? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
also add pet / superpet, etc :) how about KIM-1 ? :) I am serious. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
The Plus/4 scene needs you... NOT! |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
Quote: The Plus/4 scene needs you... NOT!
...but it has no relevance in order to decide for a new CSDb course. Did you simply attempt to unleash dogs? |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
And oswaldbogar entering the fight did also not calm down the mood :-)
from my perspective, vic20 is much better here then +4, because there is no homepage for vic20-scene stuff (just a forum for general vic20), and the vic20 and c64 folks are almost the same.
But we are repeating ourselves here :-)
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Murphy
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 10 |
Quote: The Plus/4 scene needs you... NOT!
It's not true! Not the plus/4 scene, only Csabo, the creator of the plus/4 world (and maybe some others ?). I really like the idea of the united 8 bit commodore scene database! |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Ok, Csabo's reasoning fucked me up a bit, and the only comments from Plus/4 sceners more or less supported his opinion. I get it why is he upset, he's concerned about loosing focus from his site. Personally, I don't see any other real reason for being negative considering this topic.
At first, I was under the impression that the sceners from other platforms will happily accept the expansion of the database, but now it seems to me that it would actually do more harm to you than be helpful.
Still, there are two options: one is to meet your needs and forget the whole update, as it's still not implemented yet. Whilst the other one is to hold a bit healthier discussion. Perhaps we could also prove that most of the C64 guys are not idiots who eat Plus/4 sceners for dinner (and vice versa), and quite a lot of us actually want to know/learn more about other C= platforms.
Btw. since you have quite mixed feelings there, what about you guys also taking a poll about expanding CSDb? I guess that the Plus/4 scene's decision should be also taken into consideration. |
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
The +4 scene got their own place, leave 'em alone. Vic-20? Why ? There was/is hardly anything that can be called a scene on the Vic-20 is there? =) Buuuuut, where's the place for the second best C= ever, the AMIGA? Seriously, if there is two Commodore machines that is linked together it's the C64 and AMIGA, eh? Try to find some decent info about the old AMIGA scene... Bring it on! |
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Murphy
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 10 |
Quote: The +4 scene got their own place, leave 'em alone. Vic-20? Why ? There was/is hardly anything that can be called a scene on the Vic-20 is there? =) Buuuuut, where's the place for the second best C= ever, the AMIGA? Seriously, if there is two Commodore machines that is linked together it's the C64 and AMIGA, eh? Try to find some decent info about the old AMIGA scene... Bring it on!
A one day old topic with several replies, it doesn't represent the point of view of the whole plus/4 scene. There are lot of groups that have relases to C64 and plus/4 aswell. Dekadence, Creators, Cosine, The Dreams, Resource, and also some sceners using different handle for the 2 different platforms. (Profi 1/Profik= Larry/Wilds)... The 98% of the plus/4 demos using sids from C64 musicians, (with converters or with sid card hardware extension,) and lot of older tools, games and effects converted from C64. So the section between the two scene is really big compared to the numbers of the plus/4 sceners. |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Well, adding the VIC20 as an option to this database takes like...FOREVER :-(
Anyway, a nice thread to spam my latest release: my first VIC20 thingy, Victro!
Nothing special, just for fun and to get to know the machine:
ftp://ftp.untergrund.net/users/scout/demoscene/Silicon_Ltd/VIC2..
Enjoy...or something. |
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chronos
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 2 |
hey! i dont think this is the right topic.. i have offer some position for our next demo on the plus4! :) first: i need a musician who can do a trip hop'ish sid track for us and secondly: a guest graphician who will do atleast a logo or something :) if you interested please contact me: chronos at servers dot hu
planned release date: 2008 summer (maybe arok party)
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Anything happening here? |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Quote: Anything happening here?
Ofcourse not.
They're far too busy playing Manky.
For Vic20 stuff check:
ftp://ftp.untergrund.net/users/vic20scene/
I hope to get the site finished somewhere in 2011 :) |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Just posting in here to say that I for one would still love to see this happen. *waves at Perff* |
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Hoild
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 29 |
Quote: Just posting in here to say that I for one would still love to see this happen. *waves at Perff*
+1, that would make sense and IMO mutually benefit all supported CBM (and "pseudo-CBM" like DTV) 8 bit platforms. |
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wil
Registered: Jan 2019
Posts: 42 |
I would also love to see a category here for all 8-bit CBM platforms, especially the VIC20. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
Adding other Platforms that have more than a few releases will require a significant rework of the Database. Not going to happen :=) |
