| | Akira
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 52 |
Cloanto selling demoscene productions...
What's the deal with a package like this?:
http://www.c64forever.com
"More than 200 preinstalled games and demoscene productions"
I don' think they are allowed to sell demoscene productions, are they? Or have they cleared it with their authors?
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| | MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1056 |
Unless you released your demo with a license agreement, it's fair to assume that it's free to distribute. Of course it would have been nice if Cloanto asked before bundling it with a commercial product, but I don't think they've broken any laws.
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| | MaD ][
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 23 |
AFAIK Cloanto "anticipated" C64Forever package contents on december 2008 and distributors websites since february. What's the point today?
Don't take it personally but I like to see that someone spread scene productions.
;) |
| | Akira
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 52 |
No, I don't take it personally, of course none of my stuff is in there, 'm a n00b ;p but I know that CLoanto have before distributed games for the Amiga without a license and I don't like seeing them do the same with the c64, specially with the demoscene which I truly love.
I understand that demo distribution is assumed as free, but I think that any commercial reproduction/duplication should be cleared with the authors.
how did the mindcandy DVDs handle it?
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| | MaD ][
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 23 |
Actually there is quite a lot of other products which seems on the "razor's edge" from my personal point of view.
Scene productions, by nature, needs to be spread all over the net (unless otherwise stated, obviously) while other things needs license agreements and such, If you may have come concerns about any kind of abuse simply report them to Cloanto directly...
http://www.c64forever.com/support/
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| | Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
i guess, we should assume that cloanto charges only for the shipping and user interface. the c64 content is not involved in the price ;) |
| | hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
Quoting Akira K
how did the mindcandy DVDs handle it?
By asking all authors for permission. |
| | Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
I'm not sure how licence/copyleft stuff works in this case, Cloanto is asking money for the package, but they provide alternatives, links to this db etc. |
| | Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 465 |
Person should have contacted the copyright owners. Surely the C64 productions could have been distributed in a way that doesn't require payment instead of putting them in to the package. That way it can be sure the payment is only for the software they make/licenced and sell.
Even if they could't get permission at least make it obvious they are trying to. |
| | HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
I dunno, this is as st0pid as selling CDs with music or such stuff. It's already there and it's free. ..but then, you can't really help people from bying stuff that is already free. |
| | taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
I just want to inform you that Cloanto did ask TRIAD for permission to include some of our demos in the package. We gave them that permission. Ofcourse, I can't speak for anyone else, but probably they asked others too.
There is no legal way to stop it as we see it, but we appreciate that they indeed did ask. As long as our demos and productions are available for free and easily accessible on the net, we don't mind if it's included in some package sold by Cloanto aswell. |
| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Actually they asked me for permission to include Booze releases (they most likely don't know me too well, otherwise they'd know that asking me for something is a bad idea by default).
Anyway. I was probably too busy or too drunk, as my reply was along the lines of hypnotic wonder and a nihilistic yield to the fate of drowning into commercialism. Consequently, I forgot to forward the email to HCL and Dane. Sorry dudes, my bad.
Btw. I sometimes use a torrented version of Amiga Forever and I must say I like it quite a lot. Saved me from hours of config tweaking. I'm seriously thinking of buying it. |
| | Archmage
Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 185 |
When they did the Amiga Forever thingy, they asked us (Andromeda) if they could include Nexus 7. We agreed, but we had them modify the contract and give each of us a copy of the final product. That's a fair trade I think. |
| | Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 404 |
Is there a list of the included demos somewhere? |
| | MaD ][
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 23 |
Quote: Is there a list of the included demos somewhere?
just put a fast listing online, please ask Cloanto for final product official list.
http://rapidshare.com/files/240095513/listing.txt.html
(those file are included with C64Forever beta version)
=) hope that helps! |
| | Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 404 |
Thanks, but doesn't really help.
"This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, or a Collector's Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times."
(Now, that's no good advertisement from rapidshare. Strange service.) |
| | iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
Here it is
186.856 1 Year Totally Stoned (Booze Design, 1992, C64).rp2
94.459 26 kg (Triad, 2000, C64).rp2
148.349 3rd Stone from the Sun (Triad, 1992, C64).rp2
147.815 4 Years (Oxyron, 1996, C64).rp2
39.669 A New Dimension (Triad, 1987, C64).rp2
156.069 Access Denied (Reflex, 1994, C64).rp2
20.303 Adventstid (Triad, 2007, C64).rp2
287.613 Altered States 50% (Taboo, 1994, C64).rp2
51.051 Barbapappa (Byterapers, 1989, C64).rp2
29.881 Beatnik (Triad, 2005, C64).rp2
70.301 Borderline (Triad, 2004, C64).rp2
104.652 Brainbeat (Reflex, 1992, C64).rp2
110.073 Brainbeat 3 (Reflex, 1995, C64).rp2
236.758 Breitbandkatze (Reflex, 1997, C64).rp2
145.120 Café Odd (Reflex, 1993, C64).rp2
41.600 Carillo! (Byterapers, 1988, C64).rp2
32.134 Chi-Taowon (Triad, 1992, C64).rp2
184.084 Chronicle of Craft (Booze Design, 2006, C64).rp2
71.544 Coma Job (Crest & Oxyron, 1998, C64).rp2
160.992 Cycle (Booze Design, 2004, C64).rp2
64.184 Dawnfall (Oxyron, 1995, C64).rp2
268.491 Deus ex Machina (Crest & Oxyron, 2000, C64).rp2
64.423 Déjà Vu (Byterapers, 1988, C64).rp2
390.040 Edge of Disgrace (Booze Design, 2008, C64).rp2
35.458 Electronaut (Triad, 2006, C64).rp2
34.406 Elephant Love (Byterapers, 1989, C64).rp2
31.064 Emission (Triad, 2001, C64).rp2
162.756 Extremes (Byterapers, 1995, C64).rp2
71.282 Feedback (Triad, 2001, C64).rp2
62.393 Follow the Sign (Byterapers, 1988, C64).rp2
79.420 Follow the Sign 2 (Byterapers, 1989, C64).rp2
81.550 Gone with the Wind (Taboo, 1992, C64).rp2
59.691 Grappo (Byterapers, 1988, C64).rp2
34.122 Happy Birthday (Booze Design, 1999, C64).rp2
49.128 Havin' Fun (Triad, 1992, C64).rp2
65.309 Horsing Around (Triad, 1999, C64).rp2
35.076 In the Middle! (Triad, 1988, C64).rp2
131.113 Industrial Breakdown (Booze Design, 2003, C64).rp2
130.433 Intrigue (Taboo, 1994, C64).rp2
69.741 Kju (Reflex, 1995, C64).rp2
51.837 Krestyron (Crest & Oxyron, 1998, C64).rp2
90.226 Lameness Rules (Oxyron, 1994, C64).rp2
75.921 Lickpipe (Triad, 1990, C64).rp2
24.616 Livercool (Triad, 1988, C64).rp2
100.483 Macho Programming (Triad, 2003, C64).rp2
82.300 Manhood I (Triad, 2000, C64).rp2
145.401 Manhood II (Triad, 2001, C64).rp2
200.246 Mathematica (Reflex, 1995, C64).rp2
39.855 Memoires (Triad, 2007, C64).rp2
113.846 Mind Control (Triad, 1993, C64).rp2
30.654 Mindexpander (Triad, 1996, C64).rp2
144.589 More than Nops (Taboo, 1992, C64).rp2
125.079 Natural Wonders (Oxyron, 2007, C64).rp2
258.497 Nine (Reflex, 1996, C64).rp2
49.390 No Control (Triad, 1994, C64).rp2
32.269 October (Triad, 2001, C64).rp2
99.151 Oh Mate! (Reflex, 1989, C64).rp2
45.551 Omed (Byterapers, 1988, C64).rp2
65.748 One-Der (Oxyron, 1997, C64).rp2
23.523 Orange (Triad, 2007, C64).rp2
40.981 Over Gold (Triad, 1988, C64).rp2
36.804 Over the Edge (Triad, 2002, C64).rp2
159.710 Place in the Space (Taboo, 1992, C64).rp2
58.547 Poisonous Injection (Triad, 2008, C64).rp2
92.086 Pravda (Triad, 1990, C64).rp2
96.129 Radio Napalm (Reflex, 1995, C64).rp2
52.614 Red October (Triad, 1990, C64).rp2
183.014 Red Storm (Triad, 1992, C64).rp2
184.082 Reflections (Reflex, 1996, C64).rp2
124.420 Refugee (Triad, 1998, C64).rp2
129.797 Revolution (Triad, 1996, C64).rp2
269.477 Ritual 2 (Taboo, 1995, C64).rp2
289.533 Royal Arte (Booze Design, 2001, C64).rp2
80.498 Ski Fever (Taboo, 1991, C64).rp2
326.217 Soul (Booze Design, 1998, C64).rp2
201.006 Sphaeristerium (Triad, 2005, C64).rp2
81.570 Spice Up Your Life (Triad, 1998, C64).rp2
10.233 SPLTTRMNKY (Triad, 2006, C64).rp2
51.176 Suckpipe (Triad, 1990, C64).rp2
46.436 Swallow & Contring (Triad, 2007, C64).rp2
32.476 Tape-Turbo (Triad, 1990, C64).rp2
43.642 The End of Slaygon (Triad, 1989, C64).rp2
157.832 The Masque (Oxyron, 1994, C64).rp2
47.623 The Set Up (Triad, 2003, C64).rp2
56.340 The Throckmorton Device (Triad, 2005, C64).rp2
45.181 The Unbits (Triad, 1993, C64).rp2
109.904 The Wild Bunch (Triad, 2006, C64).rp2
36.942 Too Little Too Late (Triad, 2007, C64).rp2
208.617 Totally Stoned 2 (Booze Design, 1993, C64).rp2
38.391 Toxic-Stranger (Triad, 1990, C64).rp2
36.494 Tristate (Triad, 2008, C64).rp2
157.860 Tsunami (Booze Design, 2005, C64).rp2
27.101 Under the Edge (Triad, 2004, C64).rp2
230.776 Unsound Minds (Byterapers, 1996, C64).rp2
109.755 Utopia (Triad, 1991, C64).rp2
31.927 Vinter Mums (Triad, 1989, C64).rp2
43.711 Vision 2003 (Oxyron, 2003, C64).rp2
64.599 Wayne's Graphic Collection (Taboo, 1993, C64).rp2
124.575 Wisdom (Triad, 1991, C64).rp2
43.448 Wonderland (Triad, 1989, C64).rp2
157.748 World of Code (Byterapers, 1994, C64).rp2
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| | MaD ][
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 23 |
10x iAN_CooG
i didn't mean to flood the forum posting the whole list... I just deleted the file on rapidshare. |
| | Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 465 |
Appears Triad is well represented :) |
| | Yazoo
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 227 |
alot of oxyron stuff in there... |
| | Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
looks like they picked groups and then prods. |
| | Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 487 |
I guess the Triad guys gave permission for The Wild Bunch too. I was never asked ;) Though it's fine with me either way. |
| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
HA! No demos from Resource. Cloanto ignores Oswaldbogár. |
| | Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
no 'pearls for pigs' either :| they should take everything above 7 from csdb :D |
| | HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
Hmm, demos from only like ~5 groups :(. What's the point? |
| | yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
namevoting on a cd, only $19.99 |
| | taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
HCL: Perhaps everyone else said no? ;) |
| | Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 404 |
The point is probably: Less people to ask for permission.
Looks to me they do care about the permission-thing at least a bit. In order to save some work, they selected a few groups only and asked them. Reasonable approach, although not my personal favourite ;) Then again, I won't buy the CD, so... |
| | MaD ][
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 23 |
Quote: HCL: Perhaps everyone else said no? ;)
actually Cloanto focused onto the main project itself (interface, lib, db etc etc etc) so I think that contacting most of active sceners would be a "little" time consuming.
If you would like to see your production in a future release of C64Forever you are free to leave a message on the support page stating your decision to include your intro/demo/muzax/game (just make sure there are no known legal copyright issues with bgm, gfx or whatever).
As I've already said before: contact Cloanto, they would be happy to receive costructive feedback or content to add.
Cheers! |
| | MaD ][
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 23 |
Quote: The point is probably: Less people to ask for permission.
Looks to me they do care about the permission-thing at least a bit. In order to save some work, they selected a few groups only and asked them. Reasonable approach, although not my personal favourite ;) Then again, I won't buy the CD, so...
Cloanto cares A LOT for permissions... |
| | Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 404 |
Quote: Cloanto cares A LOT for permissions...
Yup, looks like it. I was sceptic in the beginning, but that CD seems to be OK after all. (I personally just don't need it ;)) |
| | Akira
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 52 |
I am quite happy to see them operating properly, since there were irregularities in the Amiga Forever package.
thanks for all this info guys! |
| | MaD ][
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 23 |
Quote: I am quite happy to see them operating properly, since there were irregularities in the Amiga Forever package.
thanks for all this info guys!
Irregularities in AF? quite strange, report it if you are really sure about it or if you are the legitimate copyright holder of such ipotethic "irregular material".
I'm confident that Cloanto will resolve any issue you may (think to) have found.
... but now... enough talking about Amiga... CSDb is C64 related, Amiga sounds a little OT. |
| | chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
Quote:just make sure there are no known legal copyright issues with bgm, gfx or whatever
without even looking at the list, i am sure i can find ripped (and thus not quite legal) material in one form or another in every second demo.... if not more =P
and where is the torrent anyway ? =P |
| | MaD ][
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 23 |
@Groepaz: no surprise if you'll find something... back in the days rippig were quite usual... my words were mainly directed to new (and so, original...) prods.
Please keep in mind that I'm NOT directly involved in C64Forever myself, I just did some testing and slightly contributed with some feedback.
I like EVERY package as long as it will spread Scene feeling and history to much people as possible. |
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