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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Prince of Persia for Commodore 64/128
So the time has finally comeĀ
I'm proud to announce the release of Prince of Persia for Commodore 64/128 (PAL and NTSC).
The game will be available as a free download on the 16th of October 2011.
It will ship in the form of an EasyFlash .crt file. Any EasyFlash compatible cartridge will support the game (this should include the Chameleon and AlienFlash systems). VICE 2.2 and later also features EasyFlash support.
There is no disk or tape version (and there might never be one).
I will release more information during the coming week and will start to publish detailed documentation of the
development of this version (including my reverse-engineering work of the Apple II version) after the release.
In the mean time, here are some screenshots to get you psyched. I welcome all your comments and questions.
 
 
 
 
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1987 |
Very awesome and good idea about posting the dev process! :D Btw, doesn't 1541U support easy flash aswell? |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 490 |
Oh yeah!!! |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 273 |
awesome, looks fine. looking forward to see this one on my EF. thanks |
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Yogibear
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 208 |
This looks really great! Who did the music? Can't wait till it's the 16th! |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Looks excellent! |
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Elder0010
Registered: Apr 2011
Posts: 7 |
This is EPIC! The conversion looks perfect.. also nice game choice. Can't wait for it!!!! |
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yonx
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2003
Posts: 31 |
O_O looks freaking awesome!! |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2891 |
Yay! Been waiting on this for a while, looks like that wait was worth it! Looks awesome!
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Mix256
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 26 |
Super! Can't wait! |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 109 |
Looks very polished! Won't the game fit on a floppy disk or why will there only be an EasyFlash version? |
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Achim
Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 28 |
That's the conversion I've always been waiting for! |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Quoting The Human Code MachineLooks very polished! Won't the game fit on a floppy disk or why will there only be an EasyFlash version?
Well, it actually fits on a floppy (with EasySplit compression), but it won't fit in memory.
It's not using EasyFlash as a storage solution, but as an actual ROM cartridge, so there's lots of (speed-)code, data and tables in ROM.
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
couldn't it take advantage of the REU, then? |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 109 |
I thought the Apple II also had only 64 kb of memory or does the original Prince of Persia need additonal ram or also a cartridge? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
128k, afaik
great screens indeed. lets see how it plays :) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1987 |
Quote: couldn't it take advantage of the REU, then?
Could have, would have, why bother? The crackers need work too so that they not only train and fix SEUCK games! :D |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
Ah, finally! And still looks very promising :)
Will you also release the source so people can tweak it easily and maybe find a few more worthwhile trade-offs to make it all fit in RAM nicely? :)
This somehow reminds me of the classic TOKI-case where crackers did have to pull a few tricks like re-writing the sound/music player etc. - Of course, an experienced programmer like you did use all the tricks in the book already.
But you never know what other people are capable of coming up with.. :D |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Quote: I thought the Apple II also had only 64 kb of memory or does the original Prince of Persia need additonal ram or also a cartridge?
No, it requires an Apple IIe, IIc or IIgs, those come with at least 128K by default. |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 109 |
I found the POP source code documentiaon on Jordan Mechner's homepage and the game seems to use the full 128kb of ram. Would still be interesting to look into the possibility to sequeeze the game into a stock c64 and a 1541 floppy drive. |
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Skoe
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 34 |
The question is if one really has more fun with more loading time ;) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Quote: I found the POP source code documentiaon on Jordan Mechner's homepage and the game seems to use the full 128kb of ram. Would still be interesting to look into the possibility to sequeeze the game into a stock c64 and a 1541 floppy drive.
There's someone trying to do that, but I have no idea if it possible with his approach. |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
to have any chance of fitting the game into 64k, one would have to rewrite it to use charset instead of bitmap based graphics.
feasible certainly, but definitely not just "a mod". one would also find that all the background graphics would need to be redone to align to byte boundaries. and the animation frames would probably need to be evaluated with a view to stripping out extraneous animation data. (the excessive 15 frame animation to drink a potion springs to mind right away)
oh and i would take Mechners memory breakdown with a pinch of salt, as i seem to recall it claiming 48k for code. 48k in an 8bit is one hell of a lot of code for what amounts to a platform game.
Steve |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1987 |
Quote: to have any chance of fitting the game into 64k, one would have to rewrite it to use charset instead of bitmap based graphics.
feasible certainly, but definitely not just "a mod". one would also find that all the background graphics would need to be redone to align to byte boundaries. and the animation frames would probably need to be evaluated with a view to stripping out extraneous animation data. (the excessive 15 frame animation to drink a potion springs to mind right away)
oh and i would take Mechners memory breakdown with a pinch of salt, as i seem to recall it claiming 48k for code. 48k in an 8bit is one hell of a lot of code for what amounts to a platform game.
Steve
Indeed... as Mr. Sid pointed out to me one day on IRC: The tiles in the original graphics are 63 lines high, not 64, making char mode and $d800-colorram a living hell on the C64.
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
The 48K of code is quite accurate, but it includes tons of tables for all kinds of purposes.
Don't have the exact number here, but if you want to count just the actual code it's somewhere in the neighbourhood of 32K.
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
yes but when u actually look the game dispassionately, apart from the painters algorithm and the smooth animation, it doesnt actually do a fat lot does it?
i would say that many other c64 games have to keep track of an awful lot more data and don't use 32k to do it.
also on the amstrad forum i was told that cpc version runs on a 64k machine and it's graphics use alot more space than a 64.
Steve |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 490 |
this news alone should be increased EasyFlash (and possibly Chameleon/AlienFlash etc.) sales. at least, i just ordered 5 EasyFlash cartridges for me and my friends in my neighbourhood. Actually, I would order a Chameleon if I didn't have a 1541U2. I just left my Chameleon order to a new reason. :) |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 273 |
Quote: Could have, would have, why bother? The crackers need work too so that they not only train and fix SEUCK games! :D
jazzasser: could be that you should stop typing and finnish off EoB instead ? ;-D <just an idea...> |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
As far as I can tell from Youtube videos, the Amstrad version has only half the animation framerate (they skipped every other frame) and doesn't use double-buffered drawing.
I can't stand to look at it for more than a few minutes. :)
But there's a lot more to it than just screen drawing and a bit of animation.
There's a detailed collision detection system which is quite complicated due to the many different movements the player can perform (lots of special cases that simple jump'n'runs don't have to worry about).
Then there's configurable enemy AI which gets progressively harder and not just because it has more hit points in later levels.
A good chunk of code is also dedicated to the various animated tiles, gates, chopping jaws, falling floors, etc.
Then there's a cutscene player using the game engine, a script engine to drive the animation of NPCs during the game (for certain one-off situations like the shadow man), and many other Apple2-specific bits, floppy code, keyboard and joystick scanning, music/sfx player and so on. Because the hardware is so primitive, these things are unusually complicated. Reading the current joystick direction or playing a beep on the speaker requires timed loops and stuff like that. We C64 coders are a bit spoiled in this regard. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: yes but when u actually look the game dispassionately, apart from the painters algorithm and the smooth animation, it doesnt actually do a fat lot does it?
i would say that many other c64 games have to keep track of an awful lot more data and don't use 32k to do it.
also on the amstrad forum i was told that cpc version runs on a 64k machine and it's graphics use alot more space than a 64.
Steve
Great news! I agree that 32k of code sounds a lot, but it does probably 10x times more stuff than we can think of at the moment. :) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
I just did the calculation for the upper 64K bank (which contains the whole high-level game engine) and there's ~29K ($730d) bytes of actual code, not counting tables and other data.
The other bank contains the low-level bitmap drawing and floppy routines, so that adds another few KB. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
yay PoP! \o/
I don't think the size of the current implementation by mrsid is very interesting, it'll be more interesting to know why he choose the solutions he used.
When did you realize that 64k wouldn't be enough and what was the main cause?
Anyway, really looking forward to the game. Looks like a new Toki to me ;) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
All will be revealed in due time... :) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1987 |
Quote: jazzasser: could be that you should stop typing and finnish off EoB instead ? ;-D <just an idea...>
Good idea! Actually... I'm working as fast as I can with the iPhone version atm: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=621515&page=2
It's soon finished. Then it's time to resume the c64-version now that I've reverse engineered the whole game!
(sorry for being OT) |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 541 |
Looks awesome! Can't wait to see what that engine is capable off!
JackA: Yeah, EOTB woudn't be bad either 8-D. |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
Nice to see it finally coming to fruition. :)
Me and Ste shelved our version when you started to show Ste you were fairly advanced, although it's been a while since then and I had been getting itchy fingers to pick my code up again ;) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Pete,
I'd still love to see what you can come up with. You're probably on the right track, but it's gonna be tough. |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
Yeah, there was always contingencies for compromises when we started planning it, like Ste said the possibility of dropping frames etc. I might pick it up again then if it does get finished at least there'll be a fast loading as accurate as possible version for people with carts and a disk loading somewhat different version. |
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Yogibear
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 208 |
I still haven't heard who did the music or isn't there any? |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
Quoting YogibearI still haven't heard who did the music or isn't there any?
converted/emulated? music with sfx by conrad, so I heard |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
Quoting STE'86yes but when u actually look the game dispassionately, apart from the painters algorithm and the smooth animation, it doesnt actually do a fat lot does it?
Well... the main problem is (apart from the amount of animation frames) is the amount of colors (without exception 5 including BG) in the actors and the nice gimmick of moving behind scenery.
If you'd do it all in sprites the amount of frames could be handled. (Cadaver's metal-warrior used all kind of tricks like packing and mirroring) But you'll be stuck with the other two problems. (defining another sprite for just 5 pixels of hair. or dynamically building sprites for various parts of scenery that have to move in front of you)
That could be solved by using bitmap-based graphics but that takes a lot of speed-code to get a decent frame-rate.
Anyways. mr.SID seems to have solved it so we'll just have to see. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
An article about the biggest obstacles and solutions would be very nice :) |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 833 |
Quote: Quoting YogibearI still haven't heard who did the music or isn't there any?
converted/emulated? music with sfx by conrad, so I heard
You're half-correct! :)
I'm responsible for sound programming and sfx stuff this time. Music will be by Mr.SID I think. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: Quoting STE'86yes but when u actually look the game dispassionately, apart from the painters algorithm and the smooth animation, it doesnt actually do a fat lot does it?
Well... the main problem is (apart from the amount of animation frames) is the amount of colors (without exception 5 including BG) in the actors and the nice gimmick of moving behind scenery.
If you'd do it all in sprites the amount of frames could be handled. (Cadaver's metal-warrior used all kind of tricks like packing and mirroring) But you'll be stuck with the other two problems. (defining another sprite for just 5 pixels of hair. or dynamically building sprites for various parts of scenery that have to move in front of you)
That could be solved by using bitmap-based graphics but that takes a lot of speed-code to get a decent frame-rate.
Anyways. mr.SID seems to have solved it so we'll just have to see.
Looking at the screenshots, I dont see need for any overlay sprites and when scenery has to be in front of a sprite you can simply punch a hole in the sprite, so it looks like its behind. |
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Ksubi
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 87 |
Looks fantastic! Mr. Sid has some projects under way, thats for sure... and what a way to celebrate my birthday with the release of this gem :D |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 490 |
@oswald: "punch a hole" is the most original description used i've ever heard for sprite masking technique. :D |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
Quote: Quoting STE'86yes but when u actually look the game dispassionately, apart from the painters algorithm and the smooth animation, it doesnt actually do a fat lot does it?
Well... the main problem is (apart from the amount of animation frames) is the amount of colors (without exception 5 including BG) in the actors and the nice gimmick of moving behind scenery.
If you'd do it all in sprites the amount of frames could be handled. (Cadaver's metal-warrior used all kind of tricks like packing and mirroring) But you'll be stuck with the other two problems. (defining another sprite for just 5 pixels of hair. or dynamically building sprites for various parts of scenery that have to move in front of you)
That could be solved by using bitmap-based graphics but that takes a lot of speed-code to get a decent frame-rate.
Anyways. mr.SID seems to have solved it so we'll just have to see.
Yeah. I have a fair idea of how it works really. seeing as how I did a fair chunk of the graphics used in the game :)
Steve |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 638 |
Quote: Looks fantastic! Mr. Sid has some projects under way, thats for sure... and what a way to celebrate my birthday with the release of this gem :D
Same here ;)
I thought a certain grumpy old man from denmark did the music, btw. |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
No, that grumpy old man from Denmark was also too lazy. :) No hard feelings... |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Well, the only thing fun doing soundwise on that projekt would be the sound effects... the original music itself sucks too much donkeyass and is very boring and annoying... So with that point of view I was surely not the best choise for converting the music. :-) |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Now that Linus is a dad, we can expect him to grow very grumpy, due to lack of sleep, sex, party and whatsoever. :-)
Viruz - a few grumpy old men. ;-D |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Here's a little video of the title sequence of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8DDd7gEnkc |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Music conversion is very Cinemaware-like :) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Is that good or bad? :) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 638 |
Quote: Now that Linus is a dad, we can expect him to grow very grumpy, due to lack of sleep, sex, party and whatsoever. :-)
Viruz - a few grumpy old men. ;-D
Haha <3 |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Quote: Is that good or bad? :)
Good I'd say, as it fits the rest of the package perfectly.
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Skoe
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 34 |
Please don't release it too late on Sunday, I invited friends and we plan to play it =)
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6R6
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 244 |
Just watched the youtube clip and it looks very very very good. :) How about a teaser clip of actual gameplay ? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
looks awesome - and i think the sound fits perfectly. this kind of stuff with a "modern" tune would suck =P |
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Yogibear
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 208 |
Yes the music is very atmospheric and is better than the DOS version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zyQ_OVyhNE
The music of the Apple II version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5-06QnCHKY
is pathetic!
Some fun PoP stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqjSxBsxkWQ
Check YouTube for more!
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 885 |
Looks awesome. And here I am stuck in Bolivia, which doesnt actually matter, since i dont own an easyflash anyway...
did I already said it looks AWESOME? |
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Heavy Stylus
Registered: Apr 2007
Posts: 61 |
Well done Mr SID - really looking forward to seeing this ;) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Here's a bit of gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBs5-WOtIpc |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Wow! |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 490 |
gameplay is flawless. 3 days to go!!! |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
This c64 conversion of PoP looks nice. :D |
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Shadow
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 355 |
Wow, amazing work, must be many hours sunk into this...
Seems like it will be a very high quality conversion and I look forward to playing it! |
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zscs
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 45 |
Wow, it's amazing, can't wait to play with! Excellent work! |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
as Mr Marcelus Walace used to say:
"Mada Faka..."
it looks better than the Amiga version!
who made the GFX? |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
STE'86, Twoflower and me. |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Mada Fakaz! |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
Are you f'ing kiddin' me!
That looks awesome!
Seriously. This game won't be cracked in 6 months because everybody will be too busy playing it. :)
(but then again. i can't wait to get my hands on it ;) ) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
There is nothing to "crack", only things to be added, like trainers and maybe support for older/other cartridges. And since the creator is active and around, it may be better to co-operate with him and his sources for any improved versions or ports of his code.
mrsid: Speaking of which, do you think it is theoretically possible to make a disk version for C-128? :) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Yes, theoretically, if someone would want to do that, I'd say a disk version for the C128 is possible. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
A C128 version would be awesome :)
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 674 |
But then again, C64 version with cart IS awesome ;-) |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 490 |
A new firmware for 1541U-II with EasyFlash support would also be awesome (even if I already ordered my EasyFlash cartridge :)). |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
Then again, the Amiga 500 version is also awesome, and I had that about 20 years ago already.
Hiheihe heh eö hie hie höeöe höh...
Sorry. Couldn't resist. ;)
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syntaxerror
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 3 |
Awesome dude ! My old C64 waits for new stuff, real stuff ! We can't wait :) |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 273 |
oh, the first real usefull programm for the c128 after nibblers :-D that would be something, but first we will enjoy the c64 version. |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
I have one more video before release: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKCevu-3MYM
Enjoy! |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Oh, come on - this is old stuff - the promising Prince of Persia Preview have been out there for ages! And that one's not even requiring an EasyFlash. :-) |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
ok now that's done.
any first thoughts on how best we do the ship at the end of level one of PoP2? |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Damn, now you actually made me look at a video of PoP2... :)
I wouldn't be worried about the ship though, more than one guard on a screen is much more of a problem... |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
tbh i always thought that PoP 2's good bits were only really
the start level running across the rooftops and the ship.
the "indy" use of walking on the right stones to open the cave door and the flying leap off a platform on the the statue of Pegasus to make it come alive.
however i have always thought that the start level in the Arab city could be turned into a game in its own right.
running across rooftops jumping balconies, using awning as jump assist trampolines.
all the Tales of the Arabian Knights/Sinbad type stuff in 30's Douglas Fairbanks style. |
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metalfoot
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2005
Posts: 1 |
This is simply amazing. Pushing the C64 to a new dimension again... |
