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Richard
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 619 |
Questions about the demo scene of today
What do you think of the demo scene of today?
Here's my thoughts. Demos improved in the past and it is generally extremely difficult to come up with really cool effects. However, does this really matter? Demos are meant to be entertaining. Take Royal Arte, Deus Ex Machina and many other demos for example. I've been ever so impressed with the work put into the demos. They were entertaining.
As long as these demo groups are enjoying theirselves coding demos, or attending these scene parties, a massive thumbs up to them all :) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: I disagree. There are newcomers (like me). The sad thing is that most of the "celebrities" and super-sceners of today don't seem to appreciate it, but keep ignoring them or making fun of them.
BERT
The scene functions in a way that means you need to actually prove yourself to some degree before you're accepted - this is probably not the best way for a group of people to act, but old habits die hard and if you look as far back as the first ever demo coders (the PDP coders at MIT) they behaved in the same way.
What doesn't help for newcomers is that the C64 scene as a whole is full of piss-takers and if you watch #c-64 on IRCNet and you'll see what i mean; loads of insults, terrible jokes, insinuations but all done in *fun* because we *enjoy* ragging on each other.
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raven
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 137 |
Some thoughts..
Personally, i think the way the scene is today requires something a bit different than Groups.
Just look at the situation, there are alot of graphicians & musicians (judging from party entries) but not a lot of coders.
The real hardcore coders can be counted on one hand..
That creates a problem, as every coder is actualy a Group.
Its very rare to find a group with more than one coder today & i think this has to change.
Having one coder in a group work on a demo by himself is the major reason for the big gaps we have between big demo releasing.
Its a hard & demanding work & there's no one to share it with!
I started 64Ever not as a group, but as a label.
I want to work with as many ppl i can on different projects, doesnt matter if they're part of a group or not.
Cooperation is the key word here!
I think the result will be more quality demos released in shorter periods of time.
I'd like to read your thoughts on this :)
Raven/64ever |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Raven:
It depends I think. If you're just creating 'normal' demos cconsisting of a bunch of effects & pretty pictures your idea will suit fine. Ofcourse this still means going back to the 'coder is leading' stance.
However, if you want your demo to be more coherent, and you're not able to do everything yourself (which very few people are) then you need to have a really special relationship with your co-creators. People who know you, understand you and feel the same way about the road to be taken. If your ideas are somewhat wilder than "let's create another plasma effect, now with even more colours in the border", these people will be hard to find. And if you've found them, you don't want to let them go, you you make them sign a contract which binds them to you for life. And thus you have a group :) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Raven, i think the scene is already proving you right on that count; look at how things are now compared to say ten years ago, with co-operations being the norm rather than rare occurences. Crest & Oxyron working closely together, GRG churning out vast amounts of quality music for anybody who asks politely, Jailbird doing the same for graphics and these are random examples, there are more.
Although i think the "scene in harmony" philosophy has as much chance as a frog in a blender, we're a much more tight knit community than we were; part of that is the enhanced communication we have but it's more due to necessirty than anything else. |
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raven
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 137 |
@TDJ :
Its not really about being able to do everything alone, its more about the time it takes.
We sceners are not highschool kids anymore (*sigh*) with half the day free for coding & no worries at all..
Its just my experience working on Insomnia.
Making a high standard , polished demo requires huge amount of time.
Ofcoz you'll have to be on the same 'wave' with your co-creators, but you wont know unless you try :)
I already found one such dude, Vip , who did all gfx ,music and improved on my screenplay & design.
He also surprised me with some code-improvement ideas.. :)
I approached a few coders in the past, to work on a demo together.
They refused on the grounds that 'every coders works in a different way'.
Ofcoz we do. Thats why we're individuals!
That can also make a demo much more interesting to watch imho, having more than one distinct style.
Anyway, back to work! have to get the demo done :)
Raven/64ever |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Raven, just 2 lines:
"Ocoz you'll have to be on the same 'wave' with your co-creators, but you wont know unless you try :)"
Ah, but why would you risk losing time getting on the same level if you already have such people in your group? Just compare it with a relationship: if you already have a girlfriend you feel comfortable with, why test others?
Ofcourse if you don't, then it's different, then you almost have no other choice than to just 'fuck around' :)
"That can also make a demo much more interesting to watch imho, having more than one distinct style"
Hmm, that's where we disagree, I like my demos to have one distince style. Meaning that the whole demo feels really as a whole, not just effect-shows thrown together. Ofcourse that's also possible when there are more coders working on it, but that means lots of communication and in my experience, most coders are not too good at that. Believe me I know, I've seen 2 very talented groups I formed (Focus and Analogue pc) going bust because the coders continued to do their own thing.
Oh if only it would work out, then I could hire you to do our coding and I could concentrate on writing scrolltexts :)
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Working together in harmony is NOT what this scene is all about :) personally I enjoy all the ragging and slamming and I disgust at the idea of being 'friends' with everybody, just bcoz they're in the 'scene' too.. what does the 'scene' mean anyway nowadays? To me it's just proving your own worthiness...
btw, I never had other coders wanting to work together with me anway.. (well, at least not the guys I'd *want* to work with..) PPL are just more interested in *their* own productions..
btw2 : when are you going to release Raven? 'Your' (and other ppl's) demo looked almost finished (except for some small bugs in the drive routines and that border-scroller) It's been almost one year now! :)) hurry up! :))))) ppl will get mad at me, for not having forced you to release it ;) |
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Eyeth
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 98 |
Raven wrote:
<<<
Just look at the situation, there are alot of graphicians & musicians (judging from party entries) but not a lot of coders.
The real hardcore coders can be counted on one hand..
That creates a problem, as every coder is actualy a Group.
Its very rare to find a group with more than one coder today & i think this has to change.
Having one coder in a group work on a demo by himself is the major reason for the big gaps we have between big demo releasing.
>>>
Hello.
Why do I sense a huge swing of the power pendulum swinging my way? :) It's wierd to see that my skills would be so scarce as to command demand from the demo scene. :)
I'd rather have quality over quantity these days. If it takes longer for talented demo crews to do their art form, the better as long as quality releases are the end result.
While I may not have the time to do coding tasks that is the foundation for the demo scene, I certainly do have the patience to wait until the next great release.
Enjoy.
-Todd Elliott
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raven
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 137 |
@WVL:
I'm surprised you feel this way, but thats your opinion.
Working together with other ppl is part of the fun i think.
About the demo, the story is very simple. I knew i'll be going on a trip to Europe only about a month before X2001.
I didnt have time to finish the demo like i wanted but i didnt want to arrive empty-handed.
What u saw was a nearly finished Side-1 (some bugs & sync problems left) and 60% of Side-2, with almost no real linking at all.
About the so-called drive bug, it never happened before or since so i really cant do anything about it.
I think it was an old & misaligned drive, thats all.
My bad luck...
Anyway, its been 6 months not a year (still too long) but i hope demo will be out in the next couple of weeks :)
It'll be worth the wait :)
@Eyeth:
Problem is, there are too many ppl sitting around waiting for releases instead of doing something creative..
Think about it.
Raven/64Ever |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
"Problem is, there are too many ppl sitting around waiting for releases instead of doing something creative.. " (Raven)
I second that.
Roman |
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