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2007-08-17 21:20

tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1714

Which assemblers do you/did you use for coding?

I thought this might be interesting.

I'll start:
I started out with Hesmon, and later switched to Handics VICMON.
Never did anything major in this. Just learnt how stuff was working.

Later I bought a copy Oasis Machine Lightning (which was bought up by Ocean and turned into Laser Genious)
I used Machine Lightning for all demos I did in the 80's. Cost a shitload of money.
It's line oriented (like basic) which sucks a bit, but has very good macro facilities.

I had a quick stint with Macrofire V1.0 but thought it was cryptic.

I started using dasm as soon as I got an Amiga.
Kept on using dasm when I switched to a linux system.

I have recently started using Kick Assembler 2.12 in combination with dasm and make (under linux).

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2007-08-20 08:19

Radiant

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639

Started out with TASS in the RR ROM, nowadays I'm using ca65 and SounDemoN's TAR.

2007-08-20 08:25

j0x

Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215

I started out using various RAM-based monitors, then the built-in Final Cartridge II monitor.

[Edit: Come to think of it, I actually started out using the built-in monitor of the C16, before buying a C64.]

Some time in 1988 I got my first assembler from Shownuff of Razor Express. It was based on the BASIC line editor, but I don't remember the name. I didn't use it for long.

At some point, I changed to Turbo Assembler, which I used until I sold my C64 in about 1990.

Since coming back to the C64, I've been using a slightly modified version of (an old version of) dasm together with emacs for source editing.

tlr: how do you combine the use of kick assembler and dasm?

2007-08-20 08:50

tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1714

@j0x: I combine them mainly to easy the transition in to kick-ass.

I have split the code into a runtime binary and one binary for each part.
(to allow the parts overloading each other and still use common code from the runtime)
The runtime and most of the parts are in dasm, some parts are in kick-ass.
I "export" entry points from each binary by parsing the symbol table with a perl script that builds an include file with constants.
All of this is done transparantly from make.

2007-08-20 12:14

Wisdom

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 90

Interesting topic for sure, it is always nice to learn how others work and what kind of environment they have.

I started out with 64MON on casette in 1988, and sometime later switched to a better monitor that I cannot remember the name of right now. (It had a brown background and yellow foreground by default, very fancy colors to work with, eh). After two years of working like that I finally bought a drive. Only after 1992 I have owned an AR3 and started using its monitor. After spoiling my life with monitors for five years, in 1993 I started using TASS (v5.2 and v5.4b). That easily doubled my productivity during the years 1993-1995. In 1995 I started using Cross Ass 5.34 with a two C64 setup.

Today I use 64TASS 1.45 on PC or TMP 1.2 on a C64 with the same old AR3, plus an MMC64. I use SciTE on PC for text editing, with a self-prepared syntax file. I pay attention not to use any 64TASS or TMP specific feature to keep portability between these two programs as I tend to work both on PC and C64 arbitrarily.

Throughout the years, I used various environments for code generation or concept testing; CBM BASIC, Simon's BASIC, GW-BASIC and Turbo Pascal in late 80s and early 90s, and pure Assembly after 1993 or so.

Ok ok, I could make this shorter but I do not have time for that now. ;-) (We all love Blaise, don't we?)

2007-08-20 12:34

Raf

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343

monitors:
started with monitor present in black box 4 and final 2 cartridges, nowadays I use Vice's monitor

assemblers:
I used to use c64asm (but there are some serious bugs never resolved by author), then 64tasm by Taboo, then modifications by Soci, and finally I use DASM 2.20 with mods by Ian Coog

and about editors...
I used relaunch64 but I found it unstable under win98 (back in the days I used in on day-to-day basis ;p. There was/is problem with system resources management in R64 I suppose)

I also had chance with contex - not bad editor, but I mainly use textpad 4 as I found its macro capabilities and extended text editing functionality very useful, besides syntax highlighting of course :)

2007-08-20 14:10

Wisdom

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 90

Ah, C64ASM, I forgot to mention that one! It is the thing to blame for my lame 2 blockers entry back in 1996, as it assembled ZP instructions as absolute ones (i.e. LDA $02 -> LDA $0002). For a 512 byte compo, this was rather ironic so I got frustrated and entered the compo just like that with an unfinished entry. Not so surprised to be the last though. :-)

2007-08-21 17:31

Raf

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343

moreover c64asm treats * differently than assemblers referred as standard , if I remeber correctly addy taken as * is actually PC+1 :) I remeber being so angry being unable to assemble exomizer properly with c64asm and it compiled ok with DASM out of the box....

www.vulture.c64.org

2007-08-21 19:06

AüMTRöN

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 42

Monitors: Aside from poking memory, I firstly attempted M/C in a monitor called "Zoom". I have no idea where it comes from. It had several different flavours for loading to $8000, $c000 and so. Then I settled on the monitor in Action Replay, which is still my fav today - tho VICE monitor is handy for some stuff.

Assemblers: Tried Mikro Assembler and some version of Turbo Assembler back in the day, but to be honest I didn't get it. :) Now I use TASM 7.4 natively and DASM 2.20x (Ian Coog mods) with Ultraedit for crossdev.

2007-08-31 20:59

Wile Coyote

Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 637

Quote: @wile coyote: Wow, is my old tutorial still online? :) Not sure it ever became very useful though, since I lost interest in it before it ever really got anywhere. Try Puterman's tutorial instead, I have heard many good things about it.

Macros are high-level constructs in the assembler code, used for generating code and data. E.g. if you wanna make a fast rolled out screen clearing routine, you could either write 1000 commands by hand like this:

sta $0400
sta $0401
sta $0402
...
sta $07e7

Or you could get the assembler to generate it automatically. In KickAss this would look something like:

.for (var i=0; i<1000; i++) { sta $0400 + i }

There are also other ways to get it done, e.g. make a Basic program that generates the code, like I did in the old days, or make a machine code routine that does it, which is my preferred method nowadays, since it reduces the file size, although I also use KickAss macros quite a bit, especially in the early stages of an effect, since it's a lot faster to make a script than a mc routine.

Yup, its still on line.
As for Puterman's tutorial, well I think I'll pass this time, as I feel its a bit late in the day to learn c64 programming. I've too many other things to get done. If I could live for another 1000 years, then I'd love to spend 20 of them creating a lavish c64 production :D

2007-09-06 20:37

chancer

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 343

tlr : that was the one with the red manuals? hehehe I remember it well, didn't get into it though,had the Oasis tape version.

Burg: I have something similar, except its a c128 in 128 mode to c64 via the user port, you have receive software on the target machine? the beauty of it, you could use far more memory, that's what colditz etc was made on. Could you also send and receive? so like say you wanted to receive data from the target machine, it would also do that, and store them a byte statements. not that i code anything much.

jOx: that sounds like zeus64, maybe, I had that also.

turbo asm, i used a lot the one where you used the left arrow 3? or something to compile

had trilogic expert cart and action replay, but in some ways the expert was better, I always used to wipe $0400 with the action replay =/

I did look at putermans tutorial, its good at helping me to try to remember.

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