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2011-05-08 15:10

v3to

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150

Double Screen Compo Voting

Okay - all entries are in and it is time for voting.

Take your time and check the pictures properly. If you like to check it on a C64, I'd recommend to turn off the volume, because music tends to alter atmosphere. Now here come the rules:

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CHOOSE 3 FAVORITES - NO MORE - NO LESS
SEND YOUR CHOICE VIA PM TO ENTHUSI OR ME
OR BY MAIL TO << COMPO[AT SPAMSUCKS]C64PIXELS[DOT]COM >>
PLEASE DO NOT FORGET YOUR HANDLE/GROUP OR NAME
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Deadline for voting is June 7th 2011 (know it is a long term but c64pixels-visitors are watching random)

Good luck to all contestants !

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Looking Outward by Celtic, code by Zielok
Additional content according compo rules: Music
Format: MultiColor

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Monroe 6569 by Diggr
Format: Charmode

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Asteroidmine by Grass, code by Cruzer
Format: MultiColor

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The Raven by Dane
Additional content according compo rules: Dark red and dark grey are laced
Format: MultiColor

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CARGO by Twoflower, code by Cruzer
Additional content according compo rules: Music
Picture format: MultiColor, 4-colors, Colorscheme is matching Charmode

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A Kind of Magic by Yazoo, code by Axis
Additional content according compo rules: Music, scrolltext (can be disabled by pressing spacebar)
Picture format: MultiColor

... 195 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2011-05-10 11:31

Mace

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799

I don't think it's lame in all cases.

Celtic, Diggr and probably Dane too, did quite some hand pixeling on top of the conversion to get it right.
You need to get rid of colour clashes and bad dithering, after all.
Also you need to put some effort in the scan to get the colours right, especially when the colour range is narrow.

This too can be quite a job.

However, but using C64PIXELS as the compo medium, a lot of people (including myself) didn't notice that the creators mentioned their sources.
So quite a lot of us thought they were cheating...

This is what triggered this whole dicussion, I think.

2011-05-10 11:56

Digger

Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 421

@Mace: My pic even has the original author tag on it ;-)

I (sadly) think the golden era of hand pixelled gfx is gone forever due to at least two reasons:

1. Life is faster people are spending too much time playing with useless apps on their mobiles hoping to make their life actions more efficient (= waste of time and illusion IMHO but that's another topic) ;-)

2. Effort/reward ratio no way you can hand pixel 2 screen pic in 12-14 hrs, even with limited palette and sophisticated pixelling tools (brushes, dither box, etc) and it took me similar time to code the editor (http://c64.blog2t.net/slixed). I mean it's A LOT of time in REAL LIFE (yes, we're no longer in our teens).

3. There are great conversion tools (i.e. Timathes), which we haven't had in late '80s/early '90s you HAD to pixel by hand (or use "analogue" conversion methods)

Now, how about this idea (for the future):

Each artist uses his own "picture to pixel" mapping techniques, they're just a set of rules set in their brains, developed during pixelling process.
Now if we somehow manage to take this rules out by comparing original vs pixelled images, we'd be able to create a template unique to each graphician.
In theory it is (or it will be) possible to write i.e. a Phyton script (Mr. SID come on!) to convert any image into pixels using i.e. Hein or Carrion's pixelling style.

So I could create my original artwork in PhotoShop and then convert to C64 in a best possible way (preserving hand pixelling quality), it's even possible to breed a few styles (using genetic algorithms) to create hybrids (i.e. Mermaid/Archmage).

Sounds too scary? ;-)

2011-05-10 12:03

Celtic
Administrator

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807

But in the end is briliant that we are having this discussion. And i guess that besides some very awesome compo entries, this competition has been also good to get into this discussion.

@Veto: i dont feel like i am facing a tribunal. Most people posting here are people whom i have a great personal relationship with. and this might be a motivator to try and get rid of those tricicle wheels :)
Also, i think it is important to be honest, thats why i asked mermaid to make the pic fader from one to the next, to show i am not much different from Dane's.

Also asking for wokrstages is not something worth doing. I could spend some extra time downgrading my pic, adding it like workstages. that will just not work.

However, in the end i have decided i wont enter any compos anymore with my work. I think that will be the best for everyone.

This however will f.e. impact future competitions by c64pixels. I hope the people who are making the original masterpieces will compete next time, coz with those the amount of entries would be 2, which is just very sad.

at last i would like to say: thanks everyone for making this one an adult conversation without getting pissed or angry. :)

2011-05-10 12:12

v3to

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150

Quoting Mace

However, but using C64PIXELS as the compo medium, a lot of people (including myself) didn't notice that the creators mentioned their sources.
So quite a lot of us thought they were cheating...

This is what triggered this whole dicussion, I think.

agree for this competition. but in fact i do not remember a single competition where somebody mentioned the original or references. it is kinda compo culture.

2011-05-10 12:17

Digger

Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 421

I agree with Celtic, very nice discussion here :)

I think the next gfx contests will have "original artwork only or dissq" clause. So that was the "last" time ;-)

What I like about us and scene getting older (aka dying) is that we find new ways to break the boundaries of the breadbox machine. Same hardware for nearly 30 years buy hey! And I think that's what made me back (although it's a very time consuming hobby).

2011-05-10 12:24

Mermaid

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335

Celtic, you are looking at this the wrong way when you say you will not take part in compos anymore. Why not make something yourself and enter the compo with that, instead of staying away from compos?

As for this compo, the originals should absolutely have been added here at the same time the entries were added, instead of leaving it to other people to find the original pictures and post them. I'm sorry but the fact is that very few people who check out the entries here are going to notice a tiny little tag that says "OA Ronald McDonald" over at c64pixels.com.

Copies in a competition is lame, it is very lame, it is extremely lame, and touching up a scan is no work at all compared to actually making something from scratch.

I'm sorry but I certainly will not be taking part in this competition next year if it has the same "anything-goes" rules.

2011-05-10 12:35

JCB
Account closed

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241

I've just got to say that I DID check c64pixels for any sign of sources and the only one I saw was a /T tag for Engine House 13 on Celtic's picture (which I had seen somewhere before, the reason for me to go looking). None of the others had noticeable tags at the time, maybe I was just being blind ;)

The fact those sources weren't posted on here, which of course is the site where the discussions/votes on the pictures was going to happen, means a lot of people just presumed all the pictures were original. Then it just looks like people are being "found out" when they've been honest in the first place.

I think running a competition FOR one site and then using another site to discuss entries etc has caused the confusion. C64pixels.com needs a forum ;)

2011-05-10 12:52

booker
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333

Quote: Quoting Mace
However, but using C64PIXELS as the compo medium, a lot of people (including myself) didn't notice that the creators mentioned their sources.
So quite a lot of us thought they were cheating...

This is what triggered this whole dicussion, I think.

agree for this competition. but in fact i do not remember a single competition where somebody mentioned the original or references. it is kinda compo culture.

Actually there's a plan for Silesia Party compos to ask authors to provide info about the source (no-copy, convert, haf-convert ect). This is to give the audience a bit of light on what they are voting.

Anyway, for this compo, there was no rule the art has to be original work. So IMHO all the fuss here is just pure drama :D

Also, IMHO it's the author responsibility (if one cares about) to provide the reference picture along with the pic. :P

And yeey, congrats to all sniffers who found originals. Should we vote for you too? :D

2011-05-10 13:06

Mace

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799

Quoting Digger

2. Effort/reward ratio no way you can hand pixel 2 screen pic in 12-14 hrs, even with limited palette and sophisticated pixelling tools (brushes, dither box, etc) 

The compo ran for 3 months.
What would be an acceptable time span in order to get hand pixeled original works?

Quoting Digger

and it took me similar time to code the editor (http://c64.blog2t.net/slixed). I mean it's A LOT of time in REAL LIFE (yes, we're no longer in our teens).

Why did you write your own editor when there are other options that take less time?
No offence, just asking :-)

Quoting booker

Anyway, for this compo, there was no rule the art has to be original work. So IMHO all the fuss here is just pure drama :D

Good point, yet...

Quoting booker

Also, IMHO it's the author responsibility (if one cares about) to provide the reference picture along with the pic. :P

...there is such a thing as plagiarism.
And the line between that and copying work is very thin in this case.

Quoting booker

And yeey, congrats to all sniffers who found originals. Should we vote for you too? :D

Now you are just being cynical... ;-)

2011-05-10 13:09

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4611

@booker: The fuss is not just drama. I think it is about principles that needs discussion. WHAT are we voting on? Best first impression on a pic, be it a copy or original work? Or are we voting on the best conversion and the skill of finding nice models to scan and convert? Or are we voting on original artwork that has been made by hand, including idea, motif and everything? Or in the worst case: are we voting on favourite sceners? It has been a nice and good discussion above, and I don't think it's very constructive to shout "Drama" every time we discuss something and do not agree. The opposite would scare me. That we do not agree, and have the energy to discuss this topic is a proof that there is still energy and life in the scene, and that we care for it's future.

The whole voting system on csdb are freaky by the way (it does not cound amounts of votes etc. A prod that has 12 votes can outclass a prod that has 70 votes). The voting at parties, and also, per mail to this Double Screen Compo, are better - IF we know what we are voting on, that is. And that was my point. Over and out.