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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1725 |
Which assemblers do you/did you use for coding?
I thought this might be interesting.
I'll start:
I started out with Hesmon, and later switched to Handics VICMON.
Never did anything major in this. Just learnt how stuff was working.
Later I bought a copy Oasis Machine Lightning (which was bought up by Ocean and turned into Laser Genious)
I used Machine Lightning for all demos I did in the 80's. Cost a shitload of money.
It's line oriented (like basic) which sucks a bit, but has very good macro facilities.
I had a quick stint with Macrofire V1.0 but thought it was cryptic.
I started using dasm as soon as I got an Amiga.
Kept on using dasm when I switched to a linux system.
I have recently started using Kick Assembler 2.12 in combination with dasm and make (under linux). |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I use PERL for that CJ :)
Come to think of it, I've been known to use Turbo Pascal for testing out certain routines, such as the 'vector mosaic' in my Visual Delight 2 part. |
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Wile Coyote
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
I wouldn't know where to begin using an assembler.
What are 'macros' ?
When a coder first boots up an assembler, whats the first thing he/she does (probably a he most of the time). I am guessing, they have an idea of what that want to achieve from the outset (similar to an artist booting up an art package).
Has anyone written a 99% complete do's and don't when it comes to coding on the C64. I've often spotted in some scrollers, coder writing about an effect on the screen, explaing what they are achieving and why they didn't use an .INC for example.
Just did a Google and found this from Cruzer/CML
http://c64.ch/programming/index.html
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Started out with a monitor as well (one loaded from a disk), got a final cartridge (no laughing) later, which had one in rom. I later got a macro assembler or so from Wizz (Wizax) which I used for a short periode of time. Was rather uncool, because the programs were edited in a seperate tool, so when testing the compiler needed to be loaded from disk, compile - ups, an error - load the editor again and so on and so forth. At last I ended up using some rendition of TASM, which was a real improvement. I don't remember who introduced me to that one. The tiny bit of coding I do now, I do on the PC using ACME and VICE for testing. Rather confinient compared to the old days. Development is a lot faster now. |
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TNT
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 189 |
First hand assembly + data statements, then VIC-20 ML monitor, later ML monitor on VIC-20 + data statements on C64 (cross-development!), then HESMon from tape, then from disk, move to Action Replay, Laser Genius, TASS, tried several different cross-assemblers and ended up using dasm.
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
I've never been much of a coder, but i first started out with the trilogic expert cartridge followed by the usual fc 1&2 / ar carts. Today i use ACME / Textpad on the pc.
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 465 |
I started with 6510+ which came with Commodore Format 45 or thereabouts. First time I had some docs. It wasn't until many years later I got Action Replay. Now I mostly use UltraEdit or Notepad and ACME with VICE. |
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Peiselulli
Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 81 |
First : Data Lines and hand assembly
Then a Montor from tape (was it called Redmon or something like that, was not very popular and not really good, but usable).
After I bought an Amiga at the end of 1986, I used first an symbolic assembler (called Seka), so I wanted one for my C64, too.
But the first I got was "Profi-Ass", a horrible assembler that uses the Basic(!) Editor. Assembling was done with "RUN" !
So Turbo-Ass was a better solution a few months later.
When I worked for Rainbow Arts in 1988, we had a C64 Cross-Assembler that runs on a PC with a special ISA-card, that has a socket between the 6510 and the rest of the C64 board. With this Assembler (and the integrated monitor) it was possible to watch variables *without* stopping the CPU.
Transfering 64Kbytes from the PC to the C64 was possible with this system in 4 seconds(!).
Now I am using ACME0.91 under linux (and the DTVtrans Cable !) when I programmming the DTV. If I program for the original C64, I use the TMP1.2 now.
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
I first started with a monitor, which was quite a pain in the ass, with no possibility to insert instructions.
Then used VisAss for a short period, after that AssBlaster which had a nice editor and quite cool features but was full of bugs&crashed too many times... And it eats up memory like hell!
So, one day finally I got a REU and since then I fell in love with TurboMacroAssembler by Elwix and MO which is the best assembler on a C64 only system, IMHO.
Now I use Geany for editing and Dreamass for assembling on my Debian machine. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Started out with TFC3 monitor in late 1988. I solved the problem with inserting code by splitting it all into tiny segments in the memory, and keeping track of them on paper. So when I had to insert something, it was only a small piece of code that had to be moved. But it was of course still very cumbersome, and meant wasting a lot of memory in between the segments.
In about 1990 I switched to Turbo Ass, which meant that I only had about half the memory available, so I quickly got tired of this and switched back to monitor for a while, until I got hold of a second C64 and a transfer cable, as well as an adapted version of TurboAss, done by Walt or THA/Bonzai. Later I got another version done by Glasnost/CML. I think the main difference was that it could handle more lines/labels/etc.
After a break I started playing with emulator and began coding in MXass in about 2000. Today I have of course switched to the superior KickAss.
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
@wile coyote: Wow, is my old tutorial still online? :) Not sure it ever became very useful though, since I lost interest in it before it ever really got anywhere. Try Puterman's tutorial instead, I have heard many good things about it.
Macros are high-level constructs in the assembler code, used for generating code and data. E.g. if you wanna make a fast rolled out screen clearing routine, you could either write 1000 commands by hand like this:
sta $0400
sta $0401
sta $0402
...
sta $07e7
Or you could get the assembler to generate it automatically. In KickAss this would look something like:
.for (var i=0; i<1000; i++) {
sta $0400 + i
}
There are also other ways to get it done, e.g. make a Basic program that generates the code, like I did in the old days, or make a machine code routine that does it, which is my preferred method nowadays, since it reduces the file size, although I also use KickAss macros quite a bit, especially in the early stages of an effect, since it's a lot faster to make a script than a mc routine.
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