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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 491 |
Graphics on C64 demoscene: Guide of Ethics – a Proposal
Dear fellow sceners,
This is an attempt to get more understanding among, and for, C64 demoscene pixel artists. It’s not written to limit anyone, but a prayer for more transparency.
Read the document here: ->Graphics on C64 demoscene: Guide of Ethics – a Proposal<-
We tried to give define and value different processes. Which is a result of discussion, where we saw mutual grounds and felt the need to write these down.
We will update the document periodically, when enough input has been gathered and sorted out.
We’d really love to hear your thoughts on the subjects in the document.
Please post them in this thread.
(Personally I will not always fully comply to these guidelines myself, but I will continue to be transparant about it. However, I do agree with the values communicated in this document.) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5027 |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
Quoting ErvinPurely on the theoretical and fun side, I wonder how similar guidelines could be utilized on coding? How intelligent should a tool be to deserve mentioning?
I suppose only one bulletpoint is needed:
Sharing the repository (with all its commits) is appreciated. |
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NoiseEHC
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 51 |
Quote: Quoting ErvinPurely on the theoretical and fun side, I wonder how similar guidelines could be utilized on coding? How intelligent should a tool be to deserve mentioning?
I suppose only one bulletpoint is needed:
Sharing the repository (with all its commits) is appreciated.
LOL, as Graphicians and Social Justice Warriors imagine that one day AI will write world records... Fantastic!!!
See, I understand that you like creating graphics in the most unproductive way possible, and I also understand that in graphics compos you might like to level the playing field by denying any advanced tool usage.
But please do not try to tell me what tool I can or cannot use creating a demo. And I will share my source code if and only if I want it to do.
Fortunately none of you have any authority over the scene so it might be wise to stop running amok with this "proposal". If you organize events then and only then it is in your right to enforce any and all restrictions you may seem fit. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
Yay, if you've read the opinions better, you'd know I oppose to making it mandatory. Hence the words 'is appreciated', which implies a voluntary sharing of sources. |
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Scrap
Registered: Jan 2021
Posts: 14 |
Quote:
Oswald: please provide workstages for this piece of art… ;-) |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote:
It's interesting to observe that, whilst graphcians may not all completely agree, they can usually appreciate why these things are an issue for some.
It's equally interesting to observe how, in the case of many coders, they seem completely unable to grasp the most basic points of the discussion. |
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Nim
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 27 |
Here's why this topic is sensitive, and ultimately why this document is a bad idea
The topic is really not about whether its ethical to provide work stages, or whether it's ethical to post references.
The crux of the matter is that theres (at the very least a perceived) push to change the baseline of what it means to create art, or rather, what is the least acceptable level.
To most its obvious that the base level is, and should remain, you made a picture, you release it, full stop.
The discussion as i see it isn't, like i said, is it good ethics to give credits ti influnces or references or a description of your process, which is sumple, yea its clearly ethical to do that.
The discussion, and the document, is clearly a push to make releases who do not provide any additional data to be considered sus, or to justify judging this on the basis of what basically amounts to 'suspicion on the basis of meta rules', as opposed to judging on actual evidence.
Basically it's eerily similar to what woke social justice people, or what that annoying backstabbing teachers pet did back in school, which is find ways to manipulate people through regulatory rules for self interest reasons.
So the real question is, is it unethical to _not_ provide workstages or _not_ provide credits or actually anything at all other than the picture itself, with no other information at all.
No... It is not. I maintain that it would however be unethical to imply that this isn't so. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2854 |
Quoting NimSo the real question is, is it unethical to _not_ provide workstages or _not_ provide credits or actually anything at all other than the picture itself, with no other information at all.
No... It is not. I maintain that it would however be unethical to imply that this isn't so. As for credits, why, in a community where recognition and attribution are the primary currency, it's quite self-evidently unethical to deprive the original authors of works you've based your work on (if that's what you meant by "provide credits") of - a mere mention. |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote:So the real question is, is it unethical to _not_ provide workstages or _not_ provide credits or actually anything at all other than the picture itself, with no other information at all.
No... It is not.
If you've recreated someone elses artwork, it's just courtesy to give a credit to the original author. No-one is asking for in depth documentation of the process. Just a few words mentioning it.
Similarly if someone has based a competition entry on something generated by AI, or if they've wired across an image and fixed it a little, just mention that alongside the image. Again, a few words is all that's needed. In 2023 these processes are going to happen, but just be open about it.
I would ask _why_ some people are seemingly reluctant to provide this information if they don't feel keeping quiet is giving them some kind of unethical advantage? |
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Nim
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 27 |
Quote: Quoting NimSo the real question is, is it unethical to _not_ provide workstages or _not_ provide credits or actually anything at all other than the picture itself, with no other information at all.
No... It is not. I maintain that it would however be unethical to imply that this isn't so. As for credits, why, in a community where recognition and attribution are the primary currency, it's quite self-evidently unethical to deprive the original authors of works you've based your work on (if that's what you meant by "provide credits") of - a mere mention.
Its the same mistake most people make when it comes to understanding positive and negative rights. Bare baseline should not be considered wrong simply for being baseline.
Here's a crazy idea, if you want more context, ask for it. But again, it is not unethical to not provide any. |
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