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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493 |
An update on ‘Pixel art in the C64 demoscene’
Dear fellow sceners,
In response to the comments we received, we’ve made some changes to the document.
Our goal was always to find common ground to maintain the fun and integrity of our hobby.
What this is not:
- It’s not written to limit anyone (only to encourage openness)
- It’s not aimed at specific individuals (it’s a scene wide practice)
Read the document here
We’d really love to hear your thoughts on this update.
Please post them in this thread, be kind and keep it constructive and on-topic please. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2854 |
"Use of AI and conversion tools is commonly frowned upon."
Not so sure about the latter. Seeing the high frequency of some top-ranked artists churning out high-quality pieces, i'd be surprised (and doubtful) if there wasn't conversion involved at some point in the process. Not the final stages (manual brush-up), though. |
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ws
Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 230 |
Just a word on the whole conversion thing. Conversions must be possible. Or else all the code and many of the music will be next to be frowned upon in compos, because crossdevelopment. I don't see why, if i made something in Photoshop, converted it and corrected any details, why that it not human/handmade.
(So basically, what krill said) |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote: "Use of AI and conversion tools is commonly frowned upon."
Not so sure about the latter. Seeing the high frequency of some top-ranked artists churning out high-quality pieces, i'd be surprised (and doubtful) if there wasn't conversion involved at some point in the process. Not the final stages (manual brush-up), though.
This is why there's a request for transparency. Because clearly some top-ranked artists are regularly taking shortcuts and yet everything is being judged the same. It doesn't feel like a level playing field. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 119 |
Quote: Meanwhile, waiting for more great stuff like https://demozoo.org/productions/336619/ https://youtu.be/1PYzXyoasmc?t=426 - pretty creative guy, that. I believe he is human.
What an utter garbage. |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote: Just a word on the whole conversion thing. Conversions must be possible. Or else all the code and many of the music will be next to be frowned upon in compos, because crossdevelopment. I don't see why, if i made something in Photoshop, converted it and corrected any details, why that it not human/handmade.
(So basically, what krill said)
As the document mentions, it's about who decides how the artist's vision should look on the C64. Cross-development is fine if it's the artist who is in control, but if someone is using a tool to convert a high-resolution PC image to the C64 (even if it's an original piece they drew themselves), the tool is then making those decisions. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
That really seems like an odd idea. Why wouldn't you be "allowed" to draw your image on paper, scanning and converting that, and then work from this?
Comparing this with "convert mp3 to sid" seems even more odd. What if i play a tune on guitar myself, and then convert it into tracker notes (With melodyne, this might actually be doable)? And how would this be different from playing it on the keyboard - and then use midi to put the notes into the tracker - which is pretty much the common way to do it for many people these days?
As long as no content from 3rd party was used in the process, i don't see how the tools being used matter. At all. |
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ws
Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 230 |
What about C/C++ code that is transpiled to C64 asm? The coder also has (afaik, correct me if i am wrong) no real control over how the code turns out.
I am not trying to nitpick, i want to get an angle on how to better narrow down how to describe the unwanted conversion cases. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2854 |
Quoting chatGPZAs long as no content from 3rd party was used in the process, i don't see how the tools being used matter. At all. Indeed.
And "the tool is then making those decisions"... What? Why? :)
Are there no knobs and twiddles to control the tool? |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2854 |
Quoting wsWhat about C/C++ code that is transpiled to C64 asm? Cannot be compared, and please do not say "transpile". =) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
Its the same in every tracker - "packing" the tune will basically convert the "high resolution" representation into something that will be the final sid tune (which will ideally sound very close - but not necessarily, and often not 100% the same, like the "high resolution" tracker "original") |
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